First Fly Box

OK, we're off and running.

If you were outfitting a fly box for a newbie what would you put in
it? Of course, a lot depends on the target fish and the location, but
in general I'm trying to get a general sense of distributions between
sizes and types. Some of the key parameters:
--how many flies? Dozens and dozens, or maybe just 10-15 to start?
--what distribution of types? a lot of variety, or keep it focused on
the old stand-bys?
--what distribution of sizes? again, a lot of variety with few flies
in each size, or a lot of one size?

In an overindulged world, the answer might be "4 stocked boxes with 8
different sizes of 25 different styles, all with multiple repeats",
but being buried in flies is a bit constrictive.


I'm leaning toward having boxes with about 20 flies in them,
distributed over 4 or 5 types, with maybe 2 of each size. For example;
2 each #16 EHC
2 each #14 EHC
2 each #10 WB (Black)
2 each #12 WB (Black)
2 each #16 Copper John (bronze)
2 each #14 Copper John (bronze)

etc.
But immediately, I start thinking "What about Olive WB? Or Red Copper
Johns? Or other sizes....or more of this size in case its
working...."

Suggestions on a basic starter fly box?

--riverman

On 2 Nov, 01:43, riverman wrote:
OK, we're off and running.

If you were outfitting a fly box for a newbie what would you put in
it? Of course, a lot depends on the target fish and the location, but
in general I'm trying to get a general sense of distributions between
sizes and types. Some of the key parameters:
--how many flies? Dozens and dozens, or maybe just 10-15 to start?
--what distribution of types? a lot of variety, or keep it focused on
the old stand-bys?
--what distribution of sizes? again, a lot of variety with few flies
in each size, or a lot of one size?

In an overindulged world, the answer might be "4 stocked boxes with 8
different sizes of 25 different styles, all with multiple repeats",
but being buried in flies is a bit constrictive.

I'm leaning toward having boxes with about 20 flies in them,
distributed over 4 or 5 types, with maybe 2 of each size. For example;
2 each #16 EHC
2 each #14 EHC
2 each #10 WB (Black)
2 each #12 WB (Black)
2 each #16 Copper John (bronze)
2 each #14 Copper John (bronze)

etc.
But immediately, I start thinking "What about Olive WB? Or Red Copper
Johns? Or other sizes....or more of this size in case its
working...."

Suggestions on a basic starter fly box?

--riverman

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/The-Best-F...00000004042288

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:43:18 -0700, riverman
wrote:

Suggestions on a basic starter fly box?

Mine would contain Harry Mason's Killer Caddis in a couple of sizes.
I have never seen a fly work so well. It's a dry, but after the cdc
gets soaked, fish it as a wet and it will still catch fish. You have
some coming.

Dave

On Nov 2, 9:06 am, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:43:18 -0700, riverman
wrote:

Suggestions on a basic starter fly box?

Mine would contain Harry Mason's Killer Caddis in a couple of sizes.
I have never seen a fly work so well. It's a dry, but after the cdc
gets soaked, fish it as a wet and it will still catch fish. You have
some coming.

Dave

Dave, you're a gentleman and a scholar, and I thank you deeply. :-)

M

On 2 Nov, 02:32, riverman wrote:


Dave, you're a gentleman and a scholar, and I thank you deeply. :-)

M



Just wait a while, the dishonourable old ****bag will make sure he
gets a pound of flesh for them!

Don´t drink his beer either!

MC

On Nov 2, 10:40 am, Mike wrote:
On 2 Nov, 02:32, riverman wrote:



Dave, you're a gentleman and a scholar, and I thank you deeply. :-)

M



Just wait a while, the dishonourable old ****bag will make sure he
gets a pound of flesh for them!

Don´t drink his beer either!

MC

Well, I guess...

In any case, I can't open your link here at school, but I'd be very
interested in your opinion...for a newbie box that had limited
quantities (say, 20 flies); which would you compromise on: diversity
of sizes, diversity of styles, or diversity of back-ups?

--riverman

On Nov 2, 4:28 pm, riverman wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:40 am, Mike wrote:





On 2 Nov, 02:32, riverman wrote:

Dave, you're a gentleman and a scholar, and I thank you deeply. :-)

M



Just wait a while, the dishonourable old ****bag will make sure he
gets a pound of flesh for them!

Don´t drink his beer either!

MC

Well, I guess...

In any case, I can't open your link here at school, but I'd be very
interested in your opinion...for a newbie box that had limited
quantities (say, 20 flies); which would you compromise on: diversity
of sizes, diversity of styles, or diversity of back-ups?

--riverman- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Heh heh. Now that I'm home and CAN open the attachment, I see that you
seem to be quite prescient. How clever of you.
:-)

I've never seen a Greenwell's Glory or a Snipe and Purple (although I
can attest to a lot of success with other soft hackles in Sweden), but
you've answered my question with your article. It seems that a narrow
diversity of flies, in a few sizes, with 2 or 3 of each, is the
recommendation. I think I agree.

Thanks, Mike.

--riverman

On 2 Nov, 12:27, riverman wrote:
On Nov 2, 4:28 pm, riverman wrote:



On Nov 2, 10:40 am, Mike wrote:

On 2 Nov, 02:32, riverman wrote:

Dave, you're a gentleman and a scholar, and I thank you deeply. :-)

M



Just wait a while, the dishonourable old ****bag will make sure he
gets a pound of flesh for them!

Don´t drink his beer either!

MC

Well, I guess...

In any case, I can't open your link here at school, but I'd be very
interested in your opinion...for a newbie box that had limited
quantities (say, 20 flies); which would you compromise on: diversity
of sizes, diversity of styles, or diversity of back-ups?

--riverman- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Heh heh. Now that I'm home and CAN open the attachment, I see that you
seem to be quite prescient. How clever of you.
:-)

I've never seen a Greenwell's Glory or a Snipe and Purple (although I
can attest to a lot of success with other soft hackles in Sweden), but
you've answered my question with your article. It seems that a narrow
diversity of flies, in a few sizes, with 2 or 3 of each, is the
recommendation. I think I agree.

Thanks, Mike.

--riverman

One may vary the actual flies to a considerable extent. More or less
any of Harry´s generic patterns would also suit. The main thing is to
stick to a strictly limited selection at first, and concentrate on
learning when to use what. Even an extremely limited selection of the
right flies will work in most places 70....90% of the time, and using
such,automatically removes a lot of variables and confusion, which is
important for beginners.

Presentation is usually of considerably greater importance than a
specific pattern.

Also, I try to start people off with generic wet flies/streamers/
nymphs. Dry fly fishing can be quite difficult for a beginner. Can
also be fun of course, but a draggging wet fly is much more likely to
catch a fish than a dragging dry fly.

With regard to sizes, for streamers, specifically woolly buggers,
which are probably THE most versatile streamer in existence, I would
go for #6 long shanks. For soft hackles, other wet flies and nymphs,
#16 and #14.

In time, and with experience, one will wish to increase one´s
selection, also to suit specific venues. Tailwater fisheries WILL
require other flies for instance, and in small sizes.

I obviously don´t know the specifics of your class, but you might like
to have a try at making these with them;

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sit...ta rt=10&sa=N

(Scroll down to the Singaporean leaders at the bottom of the
article). They are easy and quick to make, and work very well indeed.

I would also recommend the leader rings;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on.../leaders..html

Some set-ups may also be of use to you;
http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...s/set_ups.html

Usually, beginners have the most problems with rigging and knots.

If I can be of any further assistance, please don´t hesitate to ask.
If you drop me a mail, with your address, I will also send you some of
the flies mentioned, for your class.

TL
MC

On 2 Nov, 18:41, Mike wrote:
On 2 Nov, 12:27, riverman wrote:



On Nov 2, 4:28 pm, riverman wrote:

On Nov 2, 10:40 am, Mike wrote:

On 2 Nov, 02:32, riverman wrote:

Dave, you're a gentleman and a scholar, and I thank you deeply. :-)

M



Just wait a while, the dishonourable old ****bag will make sure he
gets a pound of flesh for them!

Don´t drink his beer either!

MC

Well, I guess...

In any case, I can't open your link here at school, but I'd be very
interested in your opinion...for a newbie box that had limited
quantities (say, 20 flies); which would you compromise on: diversity
of sizes, diversity of styles, or diversity of back-ups?

--riverman- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Heh heh. Now that I'm home and CAN open the attachment, I see that you
seem to be quite prescient. How clever of you.
:-)

I've never seen a Greenwell's Glory or a Snipe and Purple (although I
can attest to a lot of success with other soft hackles in Sweden), but
you've answered my question with your article. It seems that a narrow
diversity of flies, in a few sizes, with 2 or 3 of each, is the
recommendation. I think I agree.

Thanks, Mike.

--riverman

One may vary the actual flies to a considerable extent. More or less
any of Harry´s generic patterns would also suit. The main thing is to
stick to a strictly limited selection at first, and concentrate on
learning when to use what. Even an extremely limited selection of the
right flies will work in most places 70....90% of the time, and using
such,automatically removes a lot of variables and confusion, which is
important for beginners.

Presentation is usually of considerably greater importance than a
specific pattern.

Also, I try to start people off with generic wet flies/streamers/
nymphs. Dry fly fishing can be quite difficult for a beginner. Can
also be fun of course, but a draggging wet fly is much more likely to
catch a fish than a dragging dry fly.

With regard to sizes, for streamers, specifically woolly buggers,
which are probably THE most versatile streamer in existence, I would
go for #6 long shanks. For soft hackles, other wet flies and nymphs,
#16 and #14.

In time, and with experience, one will wish to increase one´s
selection, also to suit specific venues. Tailwater fisheries WILL
require other flies for instance, and in small sizes.

I obviously don´t know the specifics of your class, but you might like
to have a try at making these with them;

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sit...omepage.t-onli...

(Scroll down to the Singaporean leaders at the bottom of the
article). They are easy and quick to make, and work very well indeed.

I would also recommend the leader rings;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on..._ups/Leaders/l...

Some set-ups may also be of use to you;http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...s/set_ups.html

Usually, beginners have the most problems with rigging and knots.

If I can be of any further assistance, please don´t hesitate to ask.
If you drop me a mail, with your address, I will also send you some of
the flies mentioned, for your class.

TL
MC

OK , read the other thread on this, and found your postal address.
Will send the flies to that. Should go off about the end of next week.

I don´t know what flies you will be getting from Harry, ( although you
may rest assured they will be first class), so I will simply send what
I think might be useful.

As people here can be quite generous, you will probably end up with a
lot of flies. Don´t be tempted to put them all in the boxes! This
is contra-productive. Stick to a basic selection, and save the others
for your next course.

You might also like to make a list of the flies with descriptions and
uses. This also aids selection considerably.If you require assistance
with that, then let me know. I will enclose such a list for the flies
I send.

By this, I mean that ONE! generic nymph pattern, one generic caddis
pattern, etc, is sufficient to begin with, but at least three of each.
This immediately obviates a lot of doubt and confusion, and it
ALWAYS!!! works.

Much the same applies to sizes. There are some criteria which allow
one to select the most useful size of certain flies: Here for instance
are the criteria I use for selecting a general nymph size, when I don
´t know the exact size required ;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...ear_nymph.html

This also works for generic caddis, mayfly, and other patterns. It
also makes it a lot easier to choose the right flies.

Also choose a limited number of set-ups, ( see previous post) which
you are going to use. Don´t try to tell them everything at ionce.
Describe a couple of set-ups, and how and why they work.

Decide on ONE general knot, for attaching flies etc( I always use the
tucked half-blood, also known as the improved clinch), and practice it
with them. ( In previous post) Consider pre-configuring fly lines
with whatever terminal knots you prefer, ( I prefer a piece of nylon
at abou 80% of fly-line diameter, permanently nail knotted to the line
and I attach leaders with a loop. One may also use the improved clinch
to attacheleaders to such a loop, or to leader rings).

TL
MC

Also, as you may or may not be aware, the first rig shown, nymph off
the bend of the dry fly, is a very popular and successful rig in New
Zealand;

http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/t...ng_double.aspx

The other rigs shown also often work well.

This site will also be useful to you;

http://www.fly-fishing-guides-new-zealand.co.nz/faq.htm

TL
MC