He was a good dog

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:02:50 -0500, jeff
wrote:

i am unaware of any
other Usenet "spews" by mike.

Come on, Jeff. I consider you one of my dearest friends, but surely
you must remember the many times Connor has *left* roff in a snit "to
never return" or words to that effect. Surely you remember the Dumbo
T-Shirt, the animousity towards me, Gehrke, Fortenberry, and *anyone*
that disagreed with him on *any* subject. Do you really think that
Tom Littleton (the author of the Dumbo T-shirt) was at fault, or good
people on roff such as Scott who answer his vitriolic (i spell that
right) spews? The man has a history of contemp for *anyone* that
disagrees with him. His jealousy of Gehrke was outragious.

As far as his knowledge: it comes from the internet, mostly. He
finds a url and posts it. Remember G. Gehrke? Not very well liked by
most on this forum, but his fishing skills and knowledge far outscore
Connor's. Perhaps in Europe Connor is very knowledgable, but not by
western standards. And, our very own Peter Collin is the BEST
fisherman I have ever met, and that includes Gehrke and Willi. In his
latest posts on "trolling", Connor has the audacity to correct Peter
by saying "trailing" is the correct term. His pompous remark
, "One may troll with flies, ( actually, the correct term is still
"trailing"), is typical Connor. Has Connor ever *really* posted a TR?
I think not. He is all bluster and no fishing.

As far as Fortenberry lying to you about Fawn Lake...... I thought it
a joke from the very beginning, thinking that he had been there,
fished it, and wanted to prevent others from going. "There aren't any
fish in this river."

I also consider Ken a dear friend, but I disagree with many things he
does, and just about everything he believes in. He is an honorable
man as you are, but one that loves to pull chains, including yours
(and mine too!). I find it difficult to believe tha you and he are at
odds. I suggest a peace offering, because it is not like you to have
an enemy. Ken, otoh, has enemies, but it doesn't seem to bother him
as much as it does you.

Dave



Just my $2.02 worth.

Dave

On 4 Nov, 19:50, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:02:50 -0500, jeff
wrote:

i am unaware of any
other Usenet "spews" by mike.

Come on, Jeff. I consider you one of my dearest friends, but surely
you must remember the many times Connor has *left* roff in a snit "to
never return" or words to that effect. Surely you remember the Dumbo
T-Shirt, the animousity towards me, Gehrke, Fortenberry, and *anyone*
that disagreed with him on *any* subject. Do you really think that
Tom Littleton (the author of the Dumbo T-shirt) was at fault, or good
people on roff such as Scott who answer his vitriolic (i spell that
right) spews? The man has a history of contemp for *anyone* that
disagrees with him. His jealousy of Gehrke was outragious.

As far as his knowledge: it comes from the internet, mostly. He
finds a url and posts it. Remember G. Gehrke? Not very well liked by
most on this forum, but his fishing skills and knowledge far outscore
Connor's. Perhaps in Europe Connor is very knowledgable, but not by
western standards. And, our very own Peter Collin is the BEST
fisherman I have ever met, and that includes Gehrke and Willi. In his
latest posts on "trolling", Connor has the audacity to correct Peter
by saying "trailing" is the correct term. His pompous remark
, "One may troll with flies, ( actually, the correct term is still
"trailing"), is typical Connor. Has Connor ever *really* posted a TR?
I think not. He is all bluster and no fishing.

As far as Fortenberry lying to you about Fawn Lake...... I thought it
a joke from the very beginning, thinking that he had been there,
fished it, and wanted to prevent others from going. "There aren't any
fish in this river."

I also consider Ken a dear friend, but I disagree with many things he
does, and just about everything he believes in. He is an honorable
man as you are, but one that loves to pull chains, including yours
(and mine too!). I find it difficult to believe tha you and he are at
odds. I suggest a peace offering, because it is not like you to have
an enemy. Ken, otoh, has enemies, but it doesn't seem to bother him
as much as it does you.

Dave

Just my $2.02 worth.

Dave

Too funny!

Maybe a little jealousy creeping in there too LaCourse? You dont know
anything at all about either my fishing knowledge or prowess, but you
constantly hold forth on it. You really are an idiot.

I think you will discover that Mr.Miller is far too decent and
sensible to fall for any of your bull****. Indeed, he has already
proven himself to be so.

There is a lot to be said for being loyal to a friend, and I actually
admire that, but there comes a time when one must allow good sense to
prevail.

MC

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:00:26 -0800, Mike
wrote:

I think you will discover that Mr.Miller is far too decent and
sensible to fall for any of your bull****. Indeed, he has already
proven himself to be so.

I think that I will discover that Jeff is well aware of your past
little snits, your supercilious behavior, your arrogant come-backs
when people disagree with you.

A question for anyone on roff that has some spare time: How many
times as Mike Connor "left" roff in a snit, "never to return." I'm
guessing 12. Could be higher.

Davey

Mike wrote:


I think you will discover that Mr.Miller is far too decent and
sensible to fall for any of your bull****. Indeed, he has already
proven himself to be so.

There is a lot to be said for being loyal to a friend, and I actually
admire that, but there comes a time when one must allow good sense to
prevail.


actually, i consider dave a friend...he has always been decent and
generous in his direct dealings with me.

while i have expressed disagreement with some of the stuff he says here,
and will undoubtedly continue to do so, thus far our disagreements have
been about "stuff" and we have not been disagreeable toward one another.

i fall for bull**** daily...but once i get a good sniff of it *and* get
tainted by it, i tend to try to clean myself off and not fall in it a
second time.

being called a liar despite my honest statements about a lake which
other neutral observers personally verified, caught fish in, and
photographed ... well, it stunk sufficiently for me. so, i reckon
fortenberry and i are both best served by simply staying away from one
another and by having no direct dealings. i'm sure we both prefer it.
like you, i take the bait on occasions.

my wife...who purports to love me...frequently remarks on my lack of
good sense. a fair assessment, no doubt. yet, it's the sense i've
got...she's still with me after all these years, and it's served me well
enough that i hope to keep it for a while longer.

anyway, i have learned i can do little to affect what occurs here. but,
from time to time, i still waste a few hours in one-finger typing
giving expression to my own feeble thoughts about stuff and keeping in
touch with old friends in a public way.

jeff

On 4 Nov, 22:14, jeff wrote:
Mike wrote:

I think you will discover that Mr.Miller is far too decent and
sensible to fall for any of your bull****. Indeed, he has already
proven himself to be so.

There is a lot to be said for being loyal to a friend, and I actually
admire that, but there comes a time when one must allow good sense to
prevail.

actually, i consider dave a friend...he has always been decent and
generous in his direct dealings with me.

while i have expressed disagreement with some of the stuff he says here,
and will undoubtedly continue to do so, thus far our disagreements have
been about "stuff" and we have not been disagreeable toward one another.

i fall for bull**** daily...but once i get a good sniff of it *and* get
tainted by it, i tend to try to clean myself off and not fall in it a
second time.

being called a liar despite my honest statements about a lake which
other neutral observers personally verified, caught fish in, and
photographed ... well, it stunk sufficiently for me. so, i reckon
fortenberry and i are both best served by simply staying away from one
another and by having no direct dealings. i'm sure we both prefer it.
like you, i take the bait on occasions.

my wife...who purports to love me...frequently remarks on my lack of
good sense. a fair assessment, no doubt. yet, it's the sense i've
got...she's still with me after all these years, and it's served me well
enough that i hope to keep it for a while longer.

anyway, i have learned i can do little to affect what occurs here. but,
from time to time, i still waste a few hours in one-finger typing
giving expression to my own feeble thoughts about stuff and keeping in
touch with old friends in a public way.

jeff

Well Sir, no matter what else you say, and which I am perfectly sure
is self-deprecating in any case, you have earned not only my deepest
respect, but also my admiration, and doubtless that of many others.

I also respect that you consider Mr LaCourse your friend. You will
doubtless also have no problem with the fact that I do not consider
him one of mine.

I don´t believe that one is unable to affect what goes on here. If
this place is worth anything at all, or even if basic angling
camaraderie is worth anything at all, then one must defend it. One
must also defend the rights of others.

This however is really now only of academic interest, as events have
caused me to alienate quite a few people here. I would rather not have
done so, but sometimes, that is just how it is. Although I will still
answer questions, and maybe send a trip report etc now and again, my
only real remaining interest is to stop Fortenberry from ever
upsetting anybody again.

Some might consider it an obsession, I see it as a duty, which I will
unswervingly carry out.

Once again my thanks for your honesty, good sense, and the civil
courage you displayed in voicing it.

Regards and tight lines!

Mike Connor

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:00:26 -0800, Mike
wrote:

Maybe a little jealousy creeping in there too LaCourse?

Jealous of you? I don't think so. I have a wonderful family, can
fish anywhere I want, any time I want. I need not get my jollies off
by posting pompous replies to newbies and then getting angry when
someone disagrees with what I say, or actually has a better solution.

You dont know
anything at all about either my fishing knowledge or prowess, but you
constantly hold forth on it. You really are an idiot.

Well, I know that you had a clave of sorts and no one caught any fish.
I know that you never post a trip report on any successful fishing
venture. I know that you are a pompous, supercilious, and arrogant
man who thinks he is God's gift to the fishing world. I know that you
had and probably still have a deep seated jealousy of Gehrke. And I
know that Fortenberry can play you like a Stradivarious sic. d;o)



I think you will discover that Mr.Miller is far too decent and
sensible to fall for any of your bull****. Indeed, he has already
proven himself to be so.

I will "discover" no such thing. I know that Jeff is a decent and
sensible man. He just forgot about your many "spews" on roff,
including the uncivilized attack on one of roff's most gentle of
people, Tom Littleton. Your t-shirt was a celebration of that attack.
And I do mean celebration! I believe Jeff has one. I and many other
roffians (most of whom you have attacked before and since then) have
one. Would you like one?

There is a lot to be said for being loyal to a friend, and I actually
admire that, but there comes a time when one must allow good sense to
prevail.

Since you have never displayed any personal knowledge of a loyal
friend, I do not see how you can speak of such. Do you have a url
(which would be your normal retort)?


Daveyboy

On 4 Nov, 22:58, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:00:26 -0800, Mike
wrote:

Maybe a little jealousy creeping in there too LaCourse?

Jealous of you? I don't think so. I have a wonderful family, can
fish anywhere I want, any time I want. I need not get my jollies off
by posting pompous replies to newbies and then getting angry when
someone disagrees with what I say, or actually has a better solution.

You dont know

anything at all about either my fishing knowledge or prowess, but you
constantly hold forth on it. You really are an idiot.

Well, I know that you had a clave of sorts and no one caught any fish.
I know that you never post a trip report on any successful fishing
venture. I know that you are a pompous, supercilious, and arrogant
man who thinks he is God's gift to the fishing world. I know that you
had and probably still have a deep seated jealousy of Gehrke. And I
know that Fortenberry can play you like a Stradivarious sic. d;o)



I think you will discover that Mr.Miller is far too decent and
sensible to fall for any of your bull****. Indeed, he has already
proven himself to be so.

I will "discover" no such thing. I know that Jeff is a decent and
sensible man. He just forgot about your many "spews" on roff,
including the uncivilized attack on one of roff's most gentle of
people, Tom Littleton. Your t-shirt was a celebration of that attack.
And I do mean celebration! I believe Jeff has one. I and many other
roffians (most of whom you have attacked before and since then) have
one. Would you like one?



There is a lot to be said for being loyal to a friend, and I actually
admire that, but there comes a time when one must allow good sense to
prevail.

Since you have never displayed any personal knowledge of a loyal
friend, I do not see how you can speak of such. Do you have a url
(which would be your normal retort)?

Daveyboy

Yeah yeah, blow it out your ass dumbo.

MC

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 14:13:32 -0800, Mike
wrote:

Yeah yeah, blow it out your ass dumbo.

Wow. I am in the company of one of the greatest roffians, Tom
Middleton. Thank you, Mikey.

Oh, yeah.... translation of the above really means, "I have no answer
for your truths."

Davey

Dave LaCourse wrote:

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:02:50 -0500, jeff
wrote:


i am unaware of any
other Usenet "spews" by mike.


Come on, Jeff. I consider you one of my dearest friends, but surely
you must remember the many times Connor has *left* roff in a snit "to
never return" or words to that effect.

and it never meant much to me, except i missed and still miss his
pleasant and humorous poems constructed on the fly (as it were), and his
information - which i found interesting and/or helpful. certainly wasn't
anything near a spew as i judge it.

Surely you remember the Dumbo
T-Shirt,

yup...but i did not ascribe the meaning to it that you and others think
it has come to represent. charlie choc used to do some brutal, but
hilarious one-liners about many of us...i laughed, but didn't consider
the objects to be laughingstocks of roff.


the animousity towards me, Gehrke, Fortenberry, and *anyone*
that disagreed with him on *any* subject.

i don't think it was necessarily the "disagreement" that created the
issue... the back and forth, senseless name-calling and demeaning
comments were (and are) the real culprit.

Do you really think that
Tom Littleton (the author of the Dumbo T-shirt) was at fault,

i don't think tom "authored" the shirt, though as i recall he was
incorrectly and inappropriately labeled a dumbo by mike. it was
certainly an apt statement about me. i also remember that as an
emotional time all around, esp and unfairly so for mike. i don't agree
with the pejoratives used by a lot of folks here - you, mike, wolfgang
included. but, i don't dictate behaviors...nor do i judge for others
usually.

or good
people on roff such as Scott who answer his vitriolic (i spell that
right) spews?

again...we all have something to learn about empathy and tolerance. i
see a distressing lack of it in this culture and country on too many
fronts. i don't know enough about mike or his country to make a good
judgment for myself. i agree though, the spew from anyone does nothing
to enhance communication or understanding.

The man has a history of contemp for *anyone* that
disagrees with him. His jealousy of Gehrke was outragious.


i don't recall it or judge it that way. you had your own history with
gg, as did most others here. i never ascribed any of it to jealousy. gg
was outrageous here...sometimes it was his charm, other times it was
near incredible. he did have a lot of knowledge, and i was impressed
with the man i met briefly at henrys fork.

As far as his knowledge: it comes from the internet, mostly.

i disagree and judge it differently.

He
finds a url and posts it. Remember G. Gehrke? Not very well liked by
most on this forum, but his fishing skills and knowledge far outscore
Connor's.

links are often a good source of help, and a shortcut to information
without having to type it out all over again. not sure how either of us
can accurately or reliably judge mike or gg with our limited personal
and direct experience with each of them. have you forgotten all of the
distrust and credibility issues engendered by the whole mig/airplane debate?

Perhaps in Europe Connor is very knowledgable, but not by
western standards. And, our very own Peter Collin is the BEST
fisherman I have ever met, and that includes Gehrke and Willi. In his
latest posts on "trolling", Connor has the audacity to correct Peter
by saying "trailing" is the correct term. His pompous remark
, "One may troll with flies, ( actually, the correct term is still
"trailing"), is typical Connor.

see, i didn't get the same feeling you did from reading those words.
have you ever actually heard mike's voice and inflection? i had no sense
of the audacity you note.

Has Connor ever *really* posted a TR?

yup...read one today. also, i recall something from the baltic deal my
friend choc attended. he's posted plenty of other stuff i've found
interesting and helpful too.


I think not. He is all bluster and no fishing.


i don't judge it the same. each to his own.

As far as Fortenberry lying to you about Fawn Lake......

he didn't lie to me...he told a lie about it, then he called me a liar
about its existence - even in the face of photos and confirmation by
neutral witnesses...including the owner of the blue ribbon flyshop.

I thought it
a joke from the very beginning, thinking that he had been there,
fished it, and wanted to prevent others from going. "There aren't any
fish in this river."

have you actually heard him say that? no. i don't think you have judged
it correctly...plus, you're changing your two fawn lakes explanation.
it all began with some advice given to a fella who was looking for an
easy spot to camp in yellowstone with his wife or girlfriend... soon
after that forty began the stuff he's well known for. i decided to
prove him wrong...with witnesses and photos. when i did...he then
basically called me (and some others) a liar. no question about it. it
ain't a secret spot. yellowstone has it on their maps and it's on a
frequented, marked trail. go back and google it from the start. you'll
then see.



I also consider Ken a dear friend, but I disagree with many things he
does, and just about everything he believes in. He is an honorable
man as you are, but one that loves to pull chains, including yours
(and mine too!).

i took the fuktard stuff with arguably good humor. the lake/liar stuff
doesn't seem honorable, nor is it acceptable chain-pulling to me.

I find it difficult to believe tha you and he are at
odds. I suggest a peace offering, because it is not like you to have
an enemy. Ken, otoh, has enemies, but it doesn't seem to bother him
as much as it does you.

difficult or not, it's how it is and how it will remain. i don't think
of him as an enemy. he's not that important to me... the lack of
interest is mutual, i'm sure.

my .01 cent worth.

jeff

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:20:21 -0500, jeff
wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:02:50 -0500, jeff
wrote:


i am unaware of any
other Usenet "spews" by mike.


Come on, Jeff. I consider you one of my dearest friends, but surely
you must remember the many times Connor has *left* roff in a snit "to
never return" or words to that effect.

and it never meant much to me, except i missed and still miss his
pleasant and humorous poems constructed on the fly (as it were), and his
information - which i found interesting and/or helpful. certainly wasn't
anything near a spew as i judge it.

Surely you remember the Dumbo
T-Shirt,

yup...but i did not ascribe the meaning to it that you and others think
it has come to represent. charlie choc used to do some brutal, but
hilarious one-liners about many of us...i laughed, but didn't consider
the objects to be laughingstocks of roff.

No one ever made a t-shirt of anything Choc said. We took it as
hilarious as you say. But Connor's attack on Middleton was uncalled
for and was not a laughing matter, hence the t-shirt to celebrate his
attack.


the animousity towards me, Gehrke, Fortenberry, and *anyone*
that disagreed with him on *any* subject.

i don't think it was necessarily the "disagreement" that created the
issue... the back and forth, senseless name-calling and demeaning
comments were (and are) the real culprit.

Do you really think that
Tom Littleton (the author of the Dumbo T-shirt) was at fault,

i don't think tom "authored" the shirt, though as i recall he was
incorrectly and inappropriately labeled a dumbo by mike. it was
certainly an apt statement about me. i also remember that as an
emotional time all around, esp and unfairly so for mike. i don't agree
with the pejoratives used by a lot of folks here - you, mike, wolfgang
included. but, i don't dictate behaviors...nor do i judge for others
usually.

or good
people on roff such as Scott who answer his vitriolic (i spell that
right) spews?

again...we all have something to learn about empathy and tolerance. i
see a distressing lack of it in this culture and country on too many
fronts. i don't know enough about mike or his country to make a good
judgment for myself. i agree though, the spew from anyone does nothing
to enhance communication or understanding.

The man has a history of contemp for *anyone* that
disagrees with him. His jealousy of Gehrke was outragious.


i don't recall it or judge it that way. you had your own history with
gg, as did most others here.

True, but I made my peace with George at his last clave. The man
hugged me and cried on my shoulder. I am glad I did. If you
remember, he died soon after and I predicted he would die soon (or at
least told folks that he looked very ill and wouldn't be surprised if
he soon died).


never ascribed any of it to jealousy. gg
was outrageous here..

And Mike Connor isn't? Why would anyone attack another man who has
just announced to his friends that his good friend Kipper has died?
What kind of lowlife would do such a thing? I can think of two:
Wolfgang and Connor, and without disappointing anyone, they did just
that.


sometimes it was his charm, other times it was
near incredible. he did have a lot of knowledge, and i was impressed
with the man i met briefly at henrys fork.

As far as his knowledge: it comes from the internet, mostly.

i disagree and judge it differently.

He
finds a url and posts it. Remember G. Gehrke? Not very well liked by
most on this forum, but his fishing skills and knowledge far outscore
Connor's.

links are often a good source of help, and a shortcut to information
without having to type it out all over again. not sure how either of us
can accurately or reliably judge mike or gg with our limited personal
and direct experience with each of them. have you forgotten all of the
distrust and credibility issues engendered by the whole mig/airplane debate?

True about the MiGs. But George's knowledge came from his heart,
from his experience. He spoke it. He didn't need to use others'
words.

Perhaps in Europe Connor is very knowledgable, but not by
western standards. And, our very own Peter Collin is the BEST
fisherman I have ever met, and that includes Gehrke and Willi. In his
latest posts on "trolling", Connor has the audacity to correct Peter
by saying "trailing" is the correct term. His pompous remark
, "One may troll with flies, ( actually, the correct term is still
"trailing"), is typical Connor.

see, i didn't get the same feeling you did from reading those words.
have you ever actually heard mike's voice and inflection? i had no sense
of the audacity you note.

He informed all that trolling was improper. Trailing was the correct
word. Trolling is the correct word here in the States. As long as I
have been fishing (since the 1940s) it has been trolling. Never heard
of trailing.

Has Connor ever *really* posted a TR?

yup...read one today. also, i recall something from the baltic deal my
friend choc attended. he's posted plenty of other stuff i've found
interesting and helpful too.

That was no TR. When has he had a chance to go fishing lately? He is
up day and night flaming Fortenberry. That was a story, ill told,
with little or no joy in it.


I think not. He is all bluster and no fishing.


i don't judge it the same. each to his own.

As far as Fortenberry lying to you about Fawn Lake......

he didn't lie to me...he told a lie about it, then he called me a liar

Sadly, I don't remember him calling you a liar.

about its existence - even in the face of photos and confirmation by
neutral witnesses...including the owner of the blue ribbon flyshop.

I thought it
a joke from the very beginning, thinking that he had been there,
fished it, and wanted to prevent others from going. "There aren't any
fish in this river."

have you actually heard him say that? no. i don't think you have judged
it correctly...plus, you're changing your two fawn lakes explanation.

I did find two Fawn Lakes in Montana. I'm not changing my
explanation. I believe there are two and I truly thought Fortenberry
was hiding one. I was wrong.

it all began with some advice given to a fella who was looking for an
easy spot to camp in yellowstone with his wife or girlfriend... soon
after that forty began the stuff he's well known for. i decided to
prove him wrong...with witnesses and photos. when i did...he then
basically called me (and some others) a liar. no question about it. it
ain't a secret spot. yellowstone has it on their maps and it's on a
frequented, marked trail. go back and google it from the start. you'll
then see.



I also consider Ken a dear friend, but I disagree with many things he
does, and just about everything he believes in. He is an honorable
man as you are, but one that loves to pull chains, including yours
(and mine too!).

i took the fuktard stuff with arguably good humor. the lake/liar stuff
doesn't seem honorable, nor is it acceptable chain-pulling to me.

I can understand. You don't read Connor the same as me, nor do I read
Fortenberry the same as you. Sorry. d;o(

I find it difficult to believe tha you and he are at
odds. I suggest a peace offering, because it is not like you to have
an enemy. Ken, otoh, has enemies, but it doesn't seem to bother him
as much as it does you.

difficult or not, it's how it is and how it will remain. i don't think
of him as an enemy. he's not that important to me... the lack of
interest is mutual, i'm sure.

I really am sad to hear that. You two were friends at one time.
Fished, drank, and joked together.

my .01 cent worth.
And a good penny it was.

Dave