Loop connection vs. knot

There are a number of ways of attaching leaders to the fly line. Many
people believe in the nail knot to a tapered leader. they worry abut
hinging. When you are casting, the end of the line should be a near perfect
U shape on its side. If it is hinged, it will have an irregular side. A
small amount of hinging is okay.. a lot can cause problems and the leader
may not turn over.
Another alternative is a small plastic connector that fits on the end of the
line. the butt of a tapered leader is inserted in one hole, and it will
come out of a hole in the side. Tie a simple overhand knot and pull the
knot into the plastic connector. Works well but I break a lot of them.
Another guy I know swears by them and doesn't understand how I can break so
many.
Another alternative is a little barbed connector that has a tiny loop on one
end. You insert the barbed point into the hole of braided lines, and tie
the leader to the tiny loop. I don't like these because there is too much
stress on the line at the end of the barb.. Pretty soon you have to cut off
an inch or so of the line and reinsert the barb. And hinging is a problem
I prefer the loop to loop method, mostly because I prefer poly leaders over
tapered leaders. they come in all sizes and densities, and are supposed to
turn the fly over better especially in the wind. They are like mini-sink
tips. I tie on about 4 feet of tippet to the poly- leader when I begin
fishing, using again the loop to loop method, and fish until the tippet is
short, then add a new piece Poly leaders are becoming very popular in
steelhead and spey fishing. I use them for everything.


"haresear" wrote in message
...
I'm new to this group, and I must admit to being bewildered by the
breadth of topics, and intensity of feelings, expressed. But after
reading the FAQ and lurking awhile, I am starting to enjoy the feel of
the group. Y'all are all right.

I'm fairly new to fly fishing. I converted from spinning gear last year
at the gentle prodding of a friend, who has proven both field guide and
mentor to me, and for whom I am very grateful. I am *really* enjoying
fly fishing for the challenges it presents, the intimacy of being right
in the stream, in the action, and the exhilaration of hooking and
fighting a fish on a fly. It's awesome fun!

My Question: Are loop connectors at the end of your fly line an
advantage? They sure make it easy to change leaders, but do they
provide sufficient transfer of energy from line to leader? Is it
"better" to use a nail knot? Or does it matter?

Philosophize at will.

Tim


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Tim,
Sierra Fisher and Wolfgang are giving you good information. Leader Links
allow you to change leaders quickly and they last a long time. They don't
catch moss, cause drag or make a splash and they transfer power well. They
are strong and you will break your tippet long before you break them. They
are very economical.
Leader Link - A small nylon device that connects your line to the leader
with a simple overhand knot. Can be purchased from Eagle Claw Country Store
Phone 1-800-628-0108. Get LL1 for tapered lines and LL2 for level lines.
Ernie

"haresear" wrote in message
My Question: Are loop connectors at the end of your fly line an
advantage? They sure make it easy to change leaders, but do they
provide sufficient transfer of energy from line to leader? Is it
"better" to use a nail knot? Or does it matter?
Tim

Here's a different point of view.

I nail knot some red amnesia to the end of my fly line and tie a surgeon's
loop in it --if it doesn't already come with a loop like, for example, the
Rio Grandes do. Then I use a loop to loop connection for the leader.
Again, RIO's come with a loop already in them. It doesn't seem to harm my
casting at all.

My son, on home leave after combat and peacekeeping in Iraq, asked me to
take him FFing for the first time. We're past the season for dries and so
are chucking nymphs with indicator and weight. Not surprisingly, as a total
beginner, he's getting the occasional snarl.

We could spend time fixing the technique flaws that caused the snarls. I
did a bit of this, but I don't think he's going to get enough enjoyment from
that to hook him on the sport. We could sit there on the stream bank and
work out the snarls or retie leaders. But I figure his time on the water
actually fishing is precious and new leaders are cheap.

Today we cut off 3 of his snarled leaders and got him back to fishing fast.
He caught 4 trout and grinned all the way home.

I can get a 3-pack of leaders for about what it costs me to rent a DVD. The
loop to loop makes it really fast to change leaders. Beginner's casts
aren't influenced as much by the connector as by other issues. If you've
only been at this for a year, "transfer of energy" is more of a concept like
global warming than an issue like standing on a burning bridge.

Getting through a total season with one leader is not my goal. I wanna
catch (and release) fish. I wanna have days filled with fishing, not
unsnarling knots or reconstructing leaders. Unsnarling knots and
reconstructing leaders is too much like what I do for a living as a
consultant, not what I want to do for fun.



"Ernie" wrote in message
y.com...
Tim,
Sierra Fisher and Wolfgang are giving you good information. Leader
Links
allow you to change leaders quickly and they last a long time. They don't
catch moss, cause drag or make a splash and they transfer power well.
They
are strong and you will break your tippet long before you break them.
They
are very economical.
Leader Link - A small nylon device that connects your line to the leader
with a simple overhand knot. Can be purchased from Eagle Claw Country
Store
Phone 1-800-628-0108. Get LL1 for tapered lines and LL2 for level lines.
Ernie

"haresear" wrote in message
My Question: Are loop connectors at the end of your fly line an
advantage? They sure make it easy to change leaders, but do they
provide sufficient transfer of energy from line to leader? Is it
"better" to use a nail knot? Or does it matter?
Tim

In article . net,
"Oldfrat" wrote:

I can get a 3-pack of leaders for about what it costs me to rent a DVD. The
loop to loop makes it really fast to change leaders. Beginner's casts
aren't influenced as much by the connector as by other issues. If you've
only been at this for a year, "transfer of energy" is more of a concept like
global warming than an issue like standing on a burning bridge.

A dvd rents for about $2. Where do you buy 3 leaders for $2 to $4?
That is what you get a leader for at a fly shop, about $3.50, about $2
if you get FAIRPLAY. And that is at Wallmart, which has nets for $6
that fly shops sell for $30

Oldfrat wrote:

I nail knot some red amnesia to the end of my fly line and tie a
surgeon's loop in it

Have only found a few references to red amnesia. What exactly is it and
what is it for? Sounds painful to me

If you've only been at this for a year, "transfer of
energy" is more of a concept like global warming than an issue like
standing on a burning bridge.

Excellent point. I am only too aware of how many other things I need to
deal with first. I personally have a nail knot tool, and I know how to
use it. I derive a certain amount of satisfaction when the knot comes
out right; it's all part of the overall enjoyment of the sport. (Now
somebody's gonna scream, "you use a *tool* to tie your knots?" ;)

Getting through a total season with one leader is not my goal. I
wanna catch (and release) fish. I wanna have days filled with
fishing, not unsnarling knots or reconstructing leaders. Unsnarling
knots and reconstructing leaders is too much like what I do for a
living as a consultant, not what I want to do for fun.

I'm no purist, but I try to avoid scorn and ridicule when possible (just
don't look at my casting). I'm at the stage you describe where I'm
changing leaders for all the wrong reasons and at the worst times. The
loop to loop starts to look inviting after the third one-- first nail
knot on the bank: "nice one, Tim"; second knot in midstream: "hey, I can
do this"; third knot with numb fingers: "where's that freakin' loop
thingy!"

BTW, thanks to all for your input. And thanks for being gentle with the
newbe.

Keep the thoughts coming,

Tim Hare

"haresear" wrote...
(Now somebody's gonna scream, "you use a *tool* to tie your knots?" ;)

Yup, but not TOO loud. Try the "nail-less nail knot" next time. SUPER easy,
strong, and no tools.

http://www.virtualflyshop.com/skills/jb4knots/

--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Tim J. wrote:
... Try the "nail-less nail knot" next time. SUPER easy,
strong, and no tools.

http://www.virtualflyshop.com/skills/jb4knots/

I use a short piece of cocktail straw to tie my nail knots. They're
free and if you ever lose one you can just go into a bar and buy a
drink. I can't tell you how many of those things I lose. ;-)

Anyway, this "nail-less" thing intrigued me. Could it be possible
that there's been a better way all this time and I didn't know
about it ? Nope. I know a nail knot, and that sir, is no nail knot.
Pretty fair facsimile, but it ain't the real thing and I wouldn't
trust it.

--
Ken Fortenberry

I and many friends have had loops pull off unexpectantly, including those
installed at the factory by Orvis or their subcontractor. Many have changed to
"nail" or "needle" knots. However, Warren introduced me to plastic connectors
that I really like. They are small and pass through the guides with ease. I
am now using them on sizes 2 through 10.

Lou T