Newbie Question: What hopper pattern?

Dave LaCourse wrote:

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 20:05:10 -0800, Mike
wrote:


I am not your personal dictionary, look it up yourself.


Already did, Mike. Trailing is not in the dictionary as far as its
connection with fishing. The correct term is trolling, and your move
to correct the OP with "trailing" smacks of your pompous arrogant
atttitude on this and other forums.



Taken from THE RANDOM HOUSE DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
[unabridged version]:

"trail": [def. #14] - "to fish by trailing a line from a moving boat;
troll."


jeff

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:24:19 -0500, jeff
wrote:

"trail": [def. #14] - "to fish by trailing a line from a moving boat;
troll."

I stand corrected on the dictionary fact. It is, however, not called
trailing in the U.S. And I believe you know that.

Dave

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:24:19 -0500, jeff
wrote:

"trail": [def. #14] - "to fish by trailing a line from a moving boat;
troll."

I stand corrected on the dictionary fact. It is, however, not called
trailing in the U.S. And I believe you know that.

Well, maybe not everywhere in the U. S. And maybe not now.

So, I checked. I checked 42 sources, all but one American publications
prior to 1920. I found exactly one indisputable reference (in Henry Van
Dyke's "Fisherman's Luck") to "trailing" in the sense in which it is used in
this thread, which is to say as a synonym for "trolling." A couple of
others arguably approach that sense, but I remain dubious.

I have many other publications, both British and American, but,
unfortunately, they have not yet been converted to searchable text. De
nada, 41 samples should be sufficient to inspire a reasonable confidence
that the term "trailing" was, while not entirely unheard of, not in common
use in the sense of "trolling" in the 19th or early 20th centuries in
America.

Meanwhile, the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica offers up this
little gem: "The other method of using the fly, harling, which is practised
on a few big rivers, consists in trailing the fly behind a boat rowed
backward and forwards across the stream and dropping gradually downwards."
Note here, that the synonym for "trolling" used here is "harling."
"Trailing," in this instance appears to be simply a descriptive term used to
explain the practice, emphatically NOT the name of the practice.

Conversely, a footnote to the article on angling reads as follows: "Trolling
is very commonly confused in angling writing and talk with trailing, which
simply means drawing a spinning-bait along behind a boat in motion."

The closest we come to a definition of trolling in the same article:
"Trolling, the method of "sink and draw" with a dead bait, referred to
previously in this article, is not much practised nowadays..."

Several other occurrences of the word "trolling" in the article shed no
further light on the matter.


From the personal experience desk......

In half a century of paying close attention to the English language as she
is spoke here in the colonies, I do not recall ever coming across "trailing"
used in the sense in which we commonly use "trolling," either in
contemporary literature or in the spoken tongue.


Back to the dictionary.....

The folks at Random House, by defining "trail" as a synonym for "troll" and
listing this as the 14th definition, appear to agree that this is an
uncommon usage here. I suggest that "vanishingly" would be a good adjective
to use in quantifying just how uncommon.


Bottom line......

Trolling, indisputably the preferred term here in the U. S., is used, for
all practical purposes, exclusively. Trailing is virtually extinct in this
sense, and appears never to have been widespread or popular.....or at least
not within the last century.

Wolfgang

On 9 Nov, 17:30, "Wolfgang" wrote:
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message

...

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:24:19 -0500, jeff
wrote:

"trail": [def. #14] - "to fish by trailing a line from a moving boat;
troll."

I stand corrected on the dictionary fact. It is, however, not called
trailing in the U.S. And I believe you know that.

Well, maybe not everywhere in the U. S. And maybe not now.

So, I checked. I checked 42 sources, all but one American publications
prior to 1920. I found exactly one indisputable reference (in Henry Van
Dyke's "Fisherman's Luck") to "trailing" in the sense in which it is used in
this thread, which is to say as a synonym for "trolling." A couple of
others arguably approach that sense, but I remain dubious.

I have many other publications, both British and American, but,
unfortunately, they have not yet been converted to searchable text. De
nada, 41 samples should be sufficient to inspire a reasonable confidence
that the term "trailing" was, while not entirely unheard of, not in common
use in the sense of "trolling" in the 19th or early 20th centuries in
America.

Meanwhile, the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica offers up this
little gem: "The other method of using the fly, harling, which is practised
on a few big rivers, consists in trailing the fly behind a boat rowed
backward and forwards across the stream and dropping gradually downwards."
Note here, that the synonym for "trolling" used here is "harling."
"Trailing," in this instance appears to be simply a descriptive term used to
explain the practice, emphatically NOT the name of the practice.

Conversely, a footnote to the article on angling reads as follows: "Trolling
is very commonly confused in angling writing and talk with trailing, which
simply means drawing a spinning-bait along behind a boat in motion."

The closest we come to a definition of trolling in the same article:
"Trolling, the method of "sink and draw" with a dead bait, referred to
previously in this article, is not much practised nowadays..."

Several other occurrences of the word "trolling" in the article shed no
further light on the matter.

From the personal experience desk......

In half a century of paying close attention to the English language as she
is spoke here in the colonies, I do not recall ever coming across "trailing"
used in the sense in which we commonly use "trolling," either in
contemporary literature or in the spoken tongue.

Back to the dictionary.....

The folks at Random House, by defining "trail" as a synonym for "troll" and
listing this as the 14th definition, appear to agree that this is an
uncommon usage here. I suggest that "vanishingly" would be a good adjective
to use in quantifying just how uncommon.

Bottom line......

Trolling, indisputably the preferred term here in the U. S., is used, for
all practical purposes, exclusively. Trailing is virtually extinct in this
sense, and appears never to have been widespread or popular.....or at least
not within the last century.

Wolfgang

Man sagt auch schleppen................... Ist wohl nicht sonderlich
bekannt in Amerika, aber fast jeder hier benutzt es.

Nur um es klarzustellen.........

MC

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...

Man sagt auch schleppen................... Ist wohl nicht sonderlich
bekannt in Amerika, aber fast jeder hier benutzt es.

Nur um es klarzustellen.........

As you yourself have pointed out on several occasions, the bulk of the
readers and writers in r.o.f.f. are American. It should come as no surprise
that we communicate in American English. To be sure, no one is barred (or
even discouraged, to the best of my recollection) from using any other
dialect or even another language, but the chances of communicating anything
useful to a wide audience in the process diminish rapidly. More
specifically (in this instance), English is the only language I speak.....or
read.....beyond a few stock phrases.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...

Man sagt auch schleppen................... Ist wohl nicht sonderlich
bekannt in Amerika, aber fast jeder hier benutzt es.

Nur um es klarzustellen.........

As you yourself have pointed out on several occasions, the bulk of the
readers and writers in r.o.f.f. are American. It should come as no surprise
that we communicate in American English. To be sure, no one is barred (or
even discouraged, to the best of my recollection) from using any other
dialect or even another language, but the chances of communicating anything
useful to a wide audience in the process diminish rapidly. More
specifically (in this instance), English is the only language I speak.....or
read.....beyond a few stock phrases.

Wolfgang



Doubtless all true, I was merely pointing out that just because you or
anybody else is not aware of an expression, word, or particular usage,
does not mean that it is does not exist.

That is a delusion.

MC

"MC" wrote in message ...
Wolfgang wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...

Man sagt auch schleppen................... Ist wohl nicht sonderlich
bekannt in Amerika, aber fast jeder hier benutzt es.

Nur um es klarzustellen.........

As you yourself have pointed out on several occasions, the bulk of the
readers and writers in r.o.f.f. are American. It should come as no
surprise that we communicate in American English. To be sure, no one is
barred (or even discouraged, to the best of my recollection) from using
any other dialect or even another language, but the chances of
communicating anything useful to a wide audience in the process diminish
rapidly. More specifically (in this instance), English is the only
language I speak.....or read.....beyond a few stock phrases.

Wolfgang

Doubtless all true, I was merely pointing out that just because you or
anybody else is not aware of an expression, word, or particular usage,
does not mean that it is does not exist.

Oh, is that all you were doing? Silly us......we thought it was someting
else.

That is a delusion.

My, my, how cleverly you turn these little observations back on us. And we,
poor benighted sods, NEVER see it coming.

Wolfgang

On Nov 9, 12:08 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:

Man sagt auch schleppen................... Ist wohl nicht sonderlich
bekannt in Amerika, aber fast jeder hier benutzt es.

Nur um es klarzustellen.........

As you yourself have pointed out on several occasions, the bulk of the
readers and writers in r.o.f.f. are American. It should come as no surprise
that we communicate in American English.

In discussing "Trailing"

He essentially said "one sometimes uses the term dragging, it not
particularly well known (our used) in America but almost everyone here
(europe) uses it.

Just to clear things up."

Wayne

I prefer the Umqua parachute hopper myself

"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Nov 9, 12:08 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:

Man sagt auch schleppen................... Ist wohl nicht sonderlich
bekannt in Amerika, aber fast jeder hier benutzt es.

Nur um es klarzustellen.........

As you yourself have pointed out on several occasions, the bulk of the
readers and writers in r.o.f.f. are American. It should come as no
surprise
that we communicate in American English.

In discussing "Trailing"

He essentially said "one sometimes uses the term dragging, it not
particularly well known (our used) in America but almost everyone here
(europe) uses it.

I see. Does he say anything about why he thinks this is germane?

Just to clear things up."

Once again, clarity is likely to have profoundly little effect on all of
this......but thanks, anyway.

Wayne

I prefer the Umqua parachute hopper myself

Never tried that one. I used to use a foam bodied variation of the Letort.
Fast and easy to tie, and it worked well enough, but esthetically lacking.
These days I don't bother with a lot of different patterns. Pretty much
stick to the bullet head.

Wolfgang

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:08:37 -0800, Wayne Knight
wrote:

On Nov 9, 12:08 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:

Man sagt auch schleppen................... Ist wohl nicht sonderlich
bekannt in Amerika, aber fast jeder hier benutzt es.

Nur um es klarzustellen.........

As you yourself have pointed out on several occasions, the bulk of the
readers and writers in r.o.f.f. are American. It should come as no surprise
that we communicate in American English.

In discussing "Trailing"

He essentially said "one sometimes uses the term dragging, it not
particularly well known (our used) in America but almost everyone here
(europe) uses it.

Just to clear things up."

Wayne

I prefer the Umqua parachute hopper myself

He also said this: "One may troll with flies, ( actually, the correct
term is still "trailing"),"

The correct term is "trolling".