OT Happy Birthday...

..to the Marine Corps (yesterday) to include any active or retired on this
group. Apropos of nothing, I just finished a good book yesterday about the
role the F-15E Strike Eagle played in the first Iraq war. The author also
had high praise for the Brit Tornado pilots and I learned a new word from
the Brits as well. Their term for female members of the military is "bumpy
fronts." It seems they needed some US BFs to attend their parties,
apparently not bringing enough of their own BFs.

Frank Sr.
who misses the military life sometimes, it was a helluva lot of fun
for the most part.

"Frank Church" wrote in message
96...
..to the Marine Corps (yesterday) to include any active or retired on this
group. Apropos of nothing, I just finished a good book yesterday about the
role the F-15E Strike Eagle played in the first Iraq war. The author also
had high praise for the Brit Tornado pilots and I learned a new word from
the Brits as well. Their term for female members of the military is "bumpy
fronts." It seems they needed some US BFs to attend their parties,
apparently not bringing enough of their own BFs.

Frank Sr.
who misses the military life sometimes, it was a helluva lot of fun
for the most part.

Thanks Frank, your'e the first person in the last eight years that I have
seen say something about the Marine Corps birthday. After the Veterans Day
thread above, this is welcome.

7/'91-8/'99
Sgt.
Jeremy Moe

"J & D Moe" wrote in news:tFNZi.263$WM.146@trndny05:


Thanks Frank, your'e the first person in the last eight years that I
have seen say something about the Marine Corps birthday. After the
Veterans Day thread above, this is welcome.

7/'91-8/'99
Sgt.
Jeremy Moe

You're very welcome Jeremy, my son (LCDR USN)served with the Marines at
Camp Lejuene as the Command Chaplain several years ago, he is now finishing
up his career with the USCG in CA. He had nothing but good things to say
about the Marines.

Frank Sr.

In article , Frank
Church wrote:

..to the Marine Corps (yesterday) to include any active or retired on this
group. Apropos of nothing, I just finished a good book yesterday about the
role the F-15E Strike Eagle played in the first Iraq war. The author also
had high praise for the Brit Tornado pilots and I learned a new word from
the Brits as well. Their term for female members of the military is "bumpy
fronts." It seems they needed some US BFs to attend their parties,
apparently not bringing enough of their own BFs.

Unfortunately the US marines are not as popular with their brit
colleagues as one might hope. Their habit of killing their allies as
happily as they kill fuzzy-headed arabs, and not 'fessing up when they
get things wrong, means that even their friends are wary of them.

For example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046950.stm

Lazarus

(who hopes that he'll refrain from putting an 'OT Happy Birthday Hamas'
or 'OT Happy Birthday IRA' on Roff whenever the time comes due)

Lazarus Cooke wrote in
news:121120071617439853%lazaruscooke@britishlibrar y.invalid:

Unfortunately the US marines are not as popular with their brit
colleagues as one might hope. Their habit of killing their allies as
happily as they kill fuzzy-headed arabs, and not 'fessing up when they
get things wrong, means that even their friends are wary of them.

For example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046950.stm

Lazarus


I'm often one of the first to criticize the cluster**** that Iraq has
become, but its hardly surprising when a journalist dies in a war zone,
accidentally or not. This is what makes war correspondents heroic. They
risk their lives to tell us what needs to be told.

This Lloyd guy knew the risks, and he assumed them. He was in the middle
of a bunch of 18 year olds in combat. I'm pretty sure that had he lived,
he'd be amongst the last to call this scenario a war crime.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

In article , Scott
Seidman wrote:



I'm often one of the first to criticize the cluster**** that Iraq has
become, but its hardly surprising when a journalist dies in a war zone,
accidentally or not. This is what makes war correspondents heroic. They
risk their lives to tell us what needs to be told.

This Lloyd guy knew the risks, and he assumed them. He was in the middle
of a bunch of 18 year olds in combat. I'm pretty sure that had he lived,
he'd be amongst the last to call this scenario a war crime.

Hi Scott

Your post is perfectly reasonable. I was filming in Afghanistan earlier
this year, and was threatened both by Taliban supporters and by US
military. (not by any brits but that was just happenstance.) I and all
my colleagues know the risks.

The trouble with Terry Lloyd is that he was not killed accidentally. He
was killed deliberately, with no excuse, by US marines, as he was being
rushed to hospital. Not my view - the view of the coroner at his
inquest.

Secondly, the marines who did it knew that they would not suffer any
comeback, and nor will they. They know that they may murder whomever
thy like with impunity.

Of all countries, the US had, until recently, an impressive tradition
of free journalism, which has been an essential element of the American
consitution. Not any more though. Had reporting been better, the war in
Iraq would not have taken place. It's in everyone's interests that
there should be a free press in American war zones, and you won't get
that if Marines regularly murder journalists whom they don't like, and
know that they'll suffer no ill-effects.

More British troops in Iraq, by the way, have been killed by their
American colleagues than have been killed by 'insurgents'.

On British journalism, I can only quote (from memory)

You cannot cheat nor bribe nor twist,
Thank God, the British journalist.
But, given what the man will do
*unbribed*, there's no occasion to.

Lazarus

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:06:03 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article , Scott
Seidman wrote:



I'm often one of the first to criticize the cluster**** that Iraq has
become, but its hardly surprising when a journalist dies in a war zone,
accidentally or not. This is what makes war correspondents heroic. They
risk their lives to tell us what needs to be told.

This Lloyd guy knew the risks, and he assumed them. He was in the middle
of a bunch of 18 year olds in combat. I'm pretty sure that had he lived,
he'd be amongst the last to call this scenario a war crime.

Hi Scott

Your post is perfectly reasonable. I was filming in Afghanistan earlier
this year, and was threatened both by Taliban supporters and by US
military. (not by any brits but that was just happenstance.) I and all
my colleagues know the risks.

The trouble with Terry Lloyd is that he was not killed accidentally. He
was killed deliberately, with no excuse, by US marines, as he was being
rushed to hospital. Not my view - the view of the coroner at his
inquest.

And the view of his friend and cameraman, Daniel Demoustier, who was
there and survived:

" I think it was a tragic accident."

Was it? I don't know, but I'd offer the word of a "friendly witness"
carries more weight than that of a politically-motivated contract
coroner (and for those who don't know, Mr. - NOT Dr. - Webster, the
coroner, is a barrister, not a medical doctor).

He also managed to find that the evidence was clear that the US forces
"engaged" the RG forces first. Two points about that: 1) it would
hardly seem to matter who fired first in such a situation, but 2)
neither the British solders on the scene or Demoustier could say who
fired first, only that both sides were definitely firing - it was a
firefight.

Secondly, the marines who did it knew that they would not suffer any
comeback, and nor will they. They know that they may murder whomever
thy like with impunity.

That's pure bull****. Lloyd's group was traveling with an armed
Republican Guard vehicle (not by choice) and other enemy vehicles and
ran into US forces. A firefight broke out, and Lloyd's team wound up in
the middle of it. There is no way the US forces could have known Lloyd
or anyone else in particular was there, so any accusations of wanting to
"get" Lloyd or even to "get" unilateral reporters in general is
nonsense.


Of all countries, the US had, until recently, an impressive tradition
of free journalism, which has been an essential element of the American
consitution.

Yeah, it's time to hark back to more honest times when all reporters
were not only free, but encouraged to cover Roosevelt's incapacity,
Kennedy's womanizing, etc.

HTH,
R

Lazarus Cooke wrote in
news:121120071706039029%lazaruscooke@britishlibrar y.invalid:

the view of the coroner at his
inquest.


And that coroner has jurisdiction because ...

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Lazarus Cooke wrote in
news:121120071617439853%lazaruscooke@britishlibrar y.invalid:

Unfortunately the US marines are not as popular with their brit
colleagues as one might hope. Their habit of killing their allies as
happily as they kill fuzzy-headed arabs, and not 'fessing up when they
get things wrong, means that even their friends are wary of them.

For example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046950.stm

Lazarus

(who hopes that he'll refrain from putting an 'OT Happy Birthday
Hamas' or 'OT Happy Birthday IRA' on Roff whenever the time comes due)

This post was to honor our US Marine Corps, and given some of your
leftist posts in the past I'm not surprised you would try to dishonor our
Marines. What a cheap shot! You get yourself downrange of a group of
marines and fire comes from your direction, you're gonna get plastered,
simple as that.

Frank Sr.

On Nov 12, 12:20 pm, Frank Church wrote:
Lazarus Cooke wrote innews:121120071617439853%lazaruscooke@britishlibr ary.invalid:

Unfortunately the US marines are not as popular with their brit
colleagues as one might hope. Their habit of killing their allies as
happily as they kill fuzzy-headed arabs, and not 'fessing up when they
get things wrong, means that even their friends are wary of them.

For example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046950.stm

Lazarus

(who hopes that he'll refrain from putting an 'OT Happy Birthday
Hamas' or 'OT Happy Birthday IRA' on Roff whenever the time comes due)

This post was to honor our US Marine Corps, and given some of your
leftist posts in the past I'm not surprised you would try to dishonor our
Marines. What a cheap shot! You get yourself downrange of a group of
marines and fire comes from your direction, you're gonna get plastered,
simple as that.

Frank Sr.

A friend of the family with a son in USMC sent this a while back.

USMC Rules For Gunfighting
1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your
friends who have guns.
2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap.
Life is expensive.
3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss, is a slow miss.
4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast
enough nor using cover correctly.
5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and
diagonal movement are preferred.)
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and
a friend with a long gun.
7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance,
or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading,
and running.
9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more
dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
10. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
11. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an
Angel urinates in the flintlock of your musket."
12. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should
have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
13. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you
lose.
14. Have a plan.
15. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
16. Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The visible target
should be in FRONT of your gun.
17. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
18. Don't drop your guard. Never turn your back on dead looking or
wounded enemy, unless they have no head.
19. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else,
keep your hands where I can see them).
20. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
21. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
22. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you
meet.
23. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
24. Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong
commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
25. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does
not start with a "4."

Navy Rules to Gunfighting
1. Adopt an aggressive offshore posture.
2. Send in the Marines.
3. Drink cold beverages, eat hot food, enjoy the ship's air
conditioning