Leaders

On 18 Nov, 15:51, "rb608" wrote:

I hope this info helps, please
email back if you have anymore questions.

Kind regards,

Zack Dalton"

Joe F.

Am still waiting for some replies on this from various people. It
seems one or two also prefer to err on the side of caution, which is
basically fair enough, although not really very informative. Two other
manufacturers quoted temperatures of 80 and 90 °C respectively, but
they were unable to explain why they thought higher temperatures might
be harmful. One guy said he didn´t know why boiling might be
detrimental, but if it is he would find out and get back to me. He
said hot water would not hurt them. He also said the leaders are made
using heat processes, but he did not know the exact temperatures
involved, and as nobody had ever asked him this before, he would like
to do some research of his own before giving me a definitive reply.

The first manufacturer said that boiling fly-lines, or exposing them
to a lot of heat for a longer period would certainly leach out some
of the softeners, and so shorten the life of the line. Some people did
hot dye their lines, but he did not recommend doing so. he said that
similar temperatures would also damage nylon for similar reasons.
This of course is not true, nylon contains no softeners, it is a long
chain copolymer, and its properties are entirely intrinsic.

Nevertheless, when I get the remainder of the answers and permission
to post them here, I will do so.

TL
MC

"Mike" wrote in message
Am still waiting for some replies on this from various people. It
seems one or two also prefer to err on the side of caution, which is
basically fair enough, although not really very informative. Two other
manufacturers quoted temperatures of 80 and 90 °C respectively, but
they were unable to explain why they thought higher temperatures might
be harmful. One guy said he didn´t know why boiling might be
detrimental, but if it is he would find out and get back to me. He
said hot water would not hurt them.

I sent the same question to three manufacturers, and received three somewhat
different replies.I wasn't planning on posting any of it except that Zach
Dalton's name popped up.

The other two were Climax:
My advice for you would be to obtain one of the inexpensive leader
straighteners that consists of a pair of rubber pads. By pulling your leader
slowly through the rubber pads, you create enough heat to remove the coiled
memory of being in a plastic bag. I have never boiled a leader, and would be
very worried that touching part of the leader against the hot pan may
seriously compromise the integrity of the leader, so I would have to advise
against doing so.

And Maxima:

It's true, heat and light are bad. Unless you are out fishing, you want
to keep your line stored in a dark cool place, like a closet, some people
even put their spools in the fridge. Anyway, if you are talking about
leader, you can stretch it with your hands when you get to the spot and
ready to fish.
The thing about using your fingers is ok also. I wouldn't put a lot of
pressure on the line when using your fingers because I have heard that the
abrasion from fingers isn't good to run line through. When a tackle shop
spools line on, they use a metal tool, or a soft cloth is ok also. On the
tuna boats, when we spool reels up, we use our fingers to get the line on
tight, and it works out fine. That is heavier lb test though.
We also dunk the line in water sometimes, fresh better than salt and I
wouldn't use hot water. Cool or medium water is better. You are right about
the heat. It shocks the line and causes structural damage. Now, I'm sure
your friends aren't using reallly hot water, so It might be ok.
I think the best thing to do, is just give the leader a slight tug when
you get to the spot. Some of the line conditioners are great also. The Kevin
Van Dam line conditioner is great, and there are several others. You might
be able to put some in a pan and dunk your leader the night before.
It's really a good question because I'm sure that both techniques are
ok, although I wouldn't use hot water. I think the conditioner is a great
way to go, if it does what you intend it to do. I was actually impessed at
how they help the line cast, but that is on a conventional reel, not fly.
Lastly, The coils that remain in line from memory are not permanent,
especially with maxima. The nature of a good line is to take the shape of
that which it is surrounded by. I do demonstations and show people who
complain about memory, that when you take the line, and give it a slight
tug, the coil comes right out, especially with new line. Try it, take a coil
and give it a slight tug and I bet it will stay.
If I get more info from Germany I will send it to you. Have a great time
fishing, and let us know how it goes. If you get good pictures, feel free to
send them in, I will do a newsletter soon and need some fly shots. I think
that it is not a serious detriment to the line strength, the way your are
doing it now, but try the others. Take care.


FWIW,
Joe F.

On Nov 19, 4:36 am, "rb608" wrote:
(The guy from Climad said
I have never boiled a leader, and would be
very worried that touching part of the leader against the hot pan may
seriously compromise the integrity of the leader, so I would have to advise
against doing so.


This guy should take a basic physical science class. The inside
surface of the pan is not demonstrably hotter than the water; the
water convects the heat away as fast as it is introduced. The Heat of
Vaporization prevents the water (or the surface of the pan) from
getting hotter than 100C until the water is gone. Ever boiled water in
a paper cup?

--riverman

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:12:14 -0800 (PST), riverman
wrote:

Ever boiled water in
a paper cup?

Yep. Massachusetts Junior Wildlife Conservation Camp, 1950.

On Nov 18, 5:28 pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:12:14 -0800 (PST), riverman

wrote:
Ever boiled water in
a paper cup?

Yep. Massachusetts Junior Wildlife Conservation Camp, 1950.

I think there is a microscopic layer of water that is super heated.
Not very think and not much above the triple point. Not usually a
problem in a pan boiled on a stovetopl Sometimes it goes to extreams
if you microwave a cup of water, put a spoon in it and it boils all
over and the counter. I have taken a cup out of the microwave and
added sugar when the first grains hit the cup it practically explodes.
Thermo 201 Heat Transfer 150 - long ago. 8^O]

"riverman" wrote in message
This guy should take a basic physical science class. The inside
surface of the pan is not demonstrably hotter than the water;

I took his meaning to avoid touching the part of the pot above the water
line, but yeak, the inside surface can't be above 212F for all practical
purposes.

Joe F.

On Nov 19, 10:27 am, "rb608" wrote:
"riverman" wrote in message
This guy should take a basic physical science class. The inside
surface of the pan is not demonstrably hotter than the water;

I took his meaning to avoid touching the part of the pot above the water
line, but yeak, the inside surface can't be above 212F for all practical
purposes.

Joe F.

I hadn't thought of that; its a good observation. If someone does boil
(or heat) their leaders, be sure not to bump the pan when you are
removing it.

And speaking of boiling leaders....that won't get me in trouble with
the Patriot Act, will it?

--riverman

On 19 Nov, 06:56, riverman wrote:
On Nov 19, 10:27 am, "rb608" wrote:

"riverman" wrote in message
This guy should take a basic physical science class. The inside
surface of the pan is not demonstrably hotter than the water;

I took his meaning to avoid touching the part of the pot above the water
line, but yeak, the inside surface can't be above 212F for all practical
purposes.

Joe F.

I hadn't thought of that; its a good observation. If someone does boil
(or heat) their leaders, be sure not to bump the pan when you are
removing it.

And speaking of boiling leaders....that won't get me in trouble with
the Patriot Act, will it?

--riverman

Most unlikely, most are pretty hard-boiled anyway.

With regard to not touching the sides of a pan etc. If you allow
materials in a dye pot near or at boiling point to touch the side of
the metal vessel, they will curl and singe. Why this is I don´t really
know, as it is theoretically impossible for the inside vessel side to
be much hotter than its contents. Which is why you can boil water over
a fire in orange peel, or coconut shells, which would otherwise simply
burn. If you do this the materials WILL singe and curl though.

To reiterate once again, I don´t boil my leaders, and I don´t advocate
anybody else doing it. But placing them in hot water is harmless. The
water only needs to be hand hot to achieve your objective here,
( straightening the leader, and making it limp), so it does not
matter whether the leader touches the sides of the container or not.

TL
MC

One other point regarding the above, a sharp "tug" will remove coiling
from line that has not had its shape ( New line for instance) for very
long. But is also shock loads the line, and is not a good idea in fine
tippet. Fine nylon will be compromised by this.

Most especially if you do this with fluorocarbon tippet for instance,
it causes stress faults at the point where you held the line while
tugging it, actually increasing the memory at these points, and on
coated lines it can compromise the coating, which in turn compromises
the knot strength.

The main advantages of heating the line in water, is that no shock
loading takes place, it is not stretched, and no particular point on
the line is subjected to specific thermal or other stress.

TL
MC

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 20:36:42 GMT, "rb608"
wrote:

I sent the same question to three manufacturers,
snippage

In the best voice of the Nazi character on Laugh In

"Very interesting!"