OT Muir journal collection digitized

When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online?

Our libraries in Colorado have made a bit of progress in this regard,
they have a good selection of audio books available (2000+ titles) for
download with a time limit and copy protection. I think is great. You
download the book and transfer it to a MP3 player (but not an IPOD) or
listen to it on your computer for a two week period.

There are also some ebooks available, but they are very limited.
Personally, what I'd especially like to see are the online availability
of scientific journals.

Willi

Willi wrote:
When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online?

Google is trying to do this, not just for one library but for *everything*:

http://books.google.com/googlebooks/library.html

What's causing them problems is copyright.

Our libraries in Colorado have made a bit of progress in this regard,
they have a good selection of audio books available (2000+ titles) for
download with a time limit and copy protection. I think is great. You
download the book and transfer it to a MP3 player (but not an IPOD) or
listen to it on your computer for a two week period.

There are also some ebooks available, but they are very limited.
Personally, what I'd especially like to see are the online availability
of scientific journals.

A lot of scientific journals are online, but you have to pay. For
example, look at http://prl.aps.org/.

Scientists were among the first to take advantage of the Web by making
preprints available, and these are typically free. For example,
http://arxiv.org/. The main reason they do this is that it takes so long
to get a paper published in journal form. Printed scientific journals
are nearly obsolete -- very expensive and out-of-date.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

rw wrote:
Willi wrote:

When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online?


Google is trying to do this, not just for one library but for *everything*:

http://books.google.com/googlebooks/library.html

What's causing them problems is copyright.


I don't see how this is different from borrowing books from the library
if they are "loaned" online with copy protection and time limits.

Willi

Willi wrote:
rw wrote:

Willi wrote:

When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available
to patrons online?



Google is trying to do this, not just for one library but for
*everything*:

http://books.google.com/googlebooks/library.html

What's causing them problems is copyright.



I don't see how this is different from borrowing books from the library
if they are "loaned" online with copy protection and time limits.

Willi

I don't think publishers particularly like lending libraries, nor do
they like used book sales. They want a way to monetize their content.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Willi wrote:
When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online?

Our libraries in Colorado have made a bit of progress in this regard,
they have a good selection of audio books available (2000+ titles) for
download with a time limit and copy protection. I think is great. You
download the book and transfer it to a MP3 player (but not an IPOD) or
listen to it on your computer for a two week period.

There are also some ebooks available, but they are very limited.
Personally, what I'd especially like to see are the online availability
of scientific journals.

Willi

Hi Willi:

A lot scientific journals are available online. The series I publish in,
is, and can be found at http://esa.publisher.ingentaconnect.com/content/esa

The rub is that full access is available only to members. The general
public can usually get access to the abstract. Many authors, myself
included, will pay to have a free pdf file than anyone can download.

Also, the article only go back to about 1999. Anything older will likely
be in print, not pdf. We are working on changing that, however, but it
takes time and money to do. There are a number of services, like JSTOR
that have archives scientific journals.

There are more and more open journals, meaning they allow full access to
anyone. I haven't published in any yet, but am considering.

Tim Lysyk

On Dec 1, 11:24 am, Willi wrote:
When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online?

Everything? Never. See this excellent article (online! :-) by
Anthony Grafton from a recent New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_grafton

(he also has an online-only selection of his favorite web resources
he

http://www.newyorker.com/online/2007...neonly_grafton)

I usually shy away from words like "never" but even Google hasn't (and
probably won't) put a dent in digitizing the printed record, let alone
keep up with what is currently published (and "published"). Let alone
usefully make it available. (I do, however, think Google Books is a
pretty cool idea.)

Our libraries in Colorado have made a bit of progress in this regard,
they have a good selection of audio books available (2000+ titles) for
download with a time limit and copy protection. I think is great. You
download the book and transfer it to a MP3 player (but not an IPOD) or
listen to it on your computer for a two week period.

DRM at work. They don't work on iPods because they use Windows DRM.
I've never actually used any of those from my public library because
the restrictions are just so foolish.

There are also some ebooks available, but they are very limited.
Personally, what I'd especially like to see are the online availability
of scientific journals.

Most are, including deep archives, but if you mean "online
availability of scientific journals from my living room" then the
answer is economics won't allow it, at least not now. Tim has pointed
out some of the issues. You should be able to access many online if
you darken the doorway of the library at Colorado State. We see
independent researchers at our place every day.

Bill

wrote:
On Dec 1, 11:24 am, Willi wrote:

When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online?


Everything? Never. See this excellent article (online! :-) by
Anthony Grafton from a recent New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_grafton

(he also has an online-only selection of his favorite web resources
he

http://www.newyorker.com/online/2007...neonly_grafton)

I usually shy away from words like "never" but even Google hasn't (and
probably won't) put a dent in digitizing the printed record, let alone
keep up with what is currently published (and "published"). Let alone
usefully make it available. (I do, however, think Google Books is a
pretty cool idea.)

When I said "everything", I didn't mean EVERYTHING. I understand the
immensity of digitizing all the printed books in the world, but it seems
to me that all new works could easily be made available in digital form.


It's a much easier task to create, hold and distribute an electronic
copy, than print, house and distribute a printed book. Today "all"
books/articles etc. are written on a computer and are already in some
digital format of one type or another. Converting them into a PDF or
some other adopted standard would be extremely easy. It would be far
easier and cheaper to maintain and distribute digital information than
maintaining a brick library or if held by a brick and mortar library, it
could be done with little extra cost.



DRM at work. They don't work on iPods because they use Windows DRM.
I've never actually used any of those from my public library because
the restrictions are just so foolish.


(I understand DRM. My comment was a just dig at IPODS, and Microsoft)
Maybe the specific protection scheme is cumbersome, but I don't
understand why you think it is foolish. It is a system for information
that is covered by copywrite. You don't own the information you
download, you just "borrow" it, like you do now when you check out a
book at a library.


I figure it's resistance from authors, publishers etc that keeps this
from happening. The music industry, with alot of kicking and screaming,
has made/is making this transition. IMO, this change has expanded the
variety of music available instead of relying on "the industry" to pick,
not the best music, but the music they feel will make them the most
money. I think it's a logical step for the "printed" word. The only
reason that this change hasn't been "forced" by the public (like it was
with music) is that there isn't YET a way to read these digitized words
that is as easy and satisfying as using printed media.


That's how I look at it but I'm sure I'm missing some salient points.

Willi

Willi wrote:

I figure it's resistance from authors, publishers etc that keeps this
from happening. The music industry, with alot of kicking and screaming,
has made/is making this transition. IMO, this change has expanded the
variety of music available instead of relying on "the industry" to pick,
not the best music, but the music they feel will make them the most
money. I think it's a logical step for the "printed" word. The only
reason that this change hasn't been "forced" by the public (like it was
with music) is that there isn't YET a way to read these digitized words
that is as easy and satisfying as using printed media.


That's how I look at it but I'm sure I'm missing some salient points.

Publishers and authors in all the various media are always suspicious
and fearful of change, and for good reason. It threatens to dilute the
value of their intellectual property. Whether they're justified in these
fears or not, the fact is that their interests as producers and owners
of content aren't congruent with your interests as a consumer of content.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"Willi" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Dec 1, 11:24 am, Willi wrote:

When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online?


Everything? Never. See this excellent article (online! :-) by
Anthony Grafton from a recent New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_grafton

(he also has an online-only selection of his favorite web resources
he

http://www.newyorker.com/online/2007...neonly_grafton)

I usually shy away from words like "never" but even Google hasn't (and
probably won't) put a dent in digitizing the printed record, let alone
keep up with what is currently published (and "published"). Let alone
usefully make it available. (I do, however, think Google Books is a
pretty cool idea.)

When I said "everything", I didn't mean EVERYTHING....

Right, not EVERYTHING, but there is already a stupefying quantity of free
stuff available. The trouble is cataloguing......finding what you're
interested in. There is no single comprehensive source of information on
what's available......or, none that I'm aware of, anyway. However, there
are a number of GOOD sources. Among the best I've found a

The Internet Public Library;

http://www.ipl.org/

The Online Books Page;

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/

and The Internet Archive;

http://www.archive.org/index.php

All three of these will direct you to other sources. There are many of them
out there. I have links to 50 or 60 (most of which I rarely check because
of their limited scope) that I'll be happy to send to anyone interested, but
it's easy enough to search them (and countless others) out via Google.

Wolfgang

On Dec 2, 11:04 am, Willi wrote:
wrote:

DRM at work. They don't work on iPods because they use Windows DRM.
I've never actually used any of those from my public library because
the restrictions are just so foolish.

(I understand DRM. My comment was a just dig at IPODS, and Microsoft)
Maybe the specific protection scheme is cumbersome, but I don't
understand why you think it is foolish. It is a system for information
that is covered by copywrite. You don't own the information you
download, you just "borrow" it, like you do now when you check out a
book at a library.

(Copyright)

Foolish was a hasty choice of adjective. I like your "cumbersome"
much better, and in my case also a dig at Microsoft, and as a Windows
resistant Mac user, I bristle when I see content that is labeled
"Windows only." Yeh, I know I can run Windows on my MacBook, I just
don't want to.

Bill