OT Muir journal collection digitized

rw wrote:
Willi wrote:

When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online?


Google is trying to do this, not just for one library but for *everything*:

http://books.google.com/googlebooks/library.html

What's causing them problems is copyright.


I don't see how this is different from borrowing books from the library
if they are "loaned" online with copy protection and time limits.

Willi

Willi wrote:
rw wrote:

Willi wrote:

When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available
to patrons online?



Google is trying to do this, not just for one library but for
*everything*:

http://books.google.com/googlebooks/library.html

What's causing them problems is copyright.



I don't see how this is different from borrowing books from the library
if they are "loaned" online with copy protection and time limits.

Willi

I don't think publishers particularly like lending libraries, nor do
they like used book sales. They want a way to monetize their content.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

nice......



On Nov 30, 10:06 am, "Wolfgang" wrote:
wrote in message

...





For those of you who enjoy such things:

The library of the University of the Pacific has some fantastic
digitized items from their special collections. In particular, I'd
like to point out their large collection of John Muir's journals and
sketches and photographs of Muir. Having looked through a small
portion of what they have made available, there is some fascinating
stuff. I looked through his notes from his stay in the Toulomne
meadows area of Yosemite, page after page of his notes and sketches.

In addition, they have a collection of Dave Brubeck items (oral
histories and photographs) and a very interesting collection of
primary materials relating to the WWII era Japanese-American
internment camps.

So if you are so inclined and have some time to spare, here is the
link.

http://library.pacific.edu/ha/digital/index.asp

Cool stuff, Bill. Thanks.

Wolfgang- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Tim J." wrote in message
...
I think Bill has seen this before, but I never made it public. My wife's
great uncle (Durham White Stevens) was an ambassador to Japan during the
Russo-Japanese War and ended up with some pretty incredible artifacts,
including these propaganda posters. Unfortunately, he was also later made
ambassador to Korea during the time that Japan was attempting to annex
Korea, and was assasinated in San Francisco by some Korean nationists who
felt he was still loyal to the Japanese.

http://css.sbcma.com/timj/Russo-Japanese-Posters/

. . . and, no, I have no idea about what the messages state on the
posters. I also have no idea what any of this has to do with Bill or Tom's
posts, but this is where the train of thought took me.
--
TL,
Tim

Tim,
I saw a PBS "Antiques Roadshow" the other week where a woman had a slew--400
or more-- of "English" langauge Japanese propaganda posters. The roadshow
guy estimated them in the thousands of dollars, even though he had never
seen anything like them before--IIRCC.

Op

Willi wrote:
When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online?

Our libraries in Colorado have made a bit of progress in this regard,
they have a good selection of audio books available (2000+ titles) for
download with a time limit and copy protection. I think is great. You
download the book and transfer it to a MP3 player (but not an IPOD) or
listen to it on your computer for a two week period.

There are also some ebooks available, but they are very limited.
Personally, what I'd especially like to see are the online availability
of scientific journals.

Willi

Hi Willi:

A lot scientific journals are available online. The series I publish in,
is, and can be found at http://esa.publisher.ingentaconnect.com/content/esa

The rub is that full access is available only to members. The general
public can usually get access to the abstract. Many authors, myself
included, will pay to have a free pdf file than anyone can download.

Also, the article only go back to about 1999. Anything older will likely
be in print, not pdf. We are working on changing that, however, but it
takes time and money to do. There are a number of services, like JSTOR
that have archives scientific journals.

There are more and more open journals, meaning they allow full access to
anyone. I haven't published in any yet, but am considering.

Tim Lysyk

On Dec 1, 11:24 am, Willi wrote:
When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online?

Everything? Never. See this excellent article (online! :-) by
Anthony Grafton from a recent New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_grafton

(he also has an online-only selection of his favorite web resources
he

http://www.newyorker.com/online/2007...neonly_grafton)

I usually shy away from words like "never" but even Google hasn't (and
probably won't) put a dent in digitizing the printed record, let alone
keep up with what is currently published (and "published"). Let alone
usefully make it available. (I do, however, think Google Books is a
pretty cool idea.)

Our libraries in Colorado have made a bit of progress in this regard,
they have a good selection of audio books available (2000+ titles) for
download with a time limit and copy protection. I think is great. You
download the book and transfer it to a MP3 player (but not an IPOD) or
listen to it on your computer for a two week period.

DRM at work. They don't work on iPods because they use Windows DRM.
I've never actually used any of those from my public library because
the restrictions are just so foolish.

There are also some ebooks available, but they are very limited.
Personally, what I'd especially like to see are the online availability
of scientific journals.

Most are, including deep archives, but if you mean "online
availability of scientific journals from my living room" then the
answer is economics won't allow it, at least not now. Tim has pointed
out some of the issues. You should be able to access many online if
you darken the doorway of the library at Colorado State. We see
independent researchers at our place every day.

Bill

wrote:
On Dec 1, 11:24 am, Willi wrote:

When is everything at a library going to be digitized and available to
patrons online?


Everything? Never. See this excellent article (online! :-) by
Anthony Grafton from a recent New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_grafton

(he also has an online-only selection of his favorite web resources
he

http://www.newyorker.com/online/2007...neonly_grafton)

I usually shy away from words like "never" but even Google hasn't (and
probably won't) put a dent in digitizing the printed record, let alone
keep up with what is currently published (and "published"). Let alone
usefully make it available. (I do, however, think Google Books is a
pretty cool idea.)

When I said "everything", I didn't mean EVERYTHING. I understand the
immensity of digitizing all the printed books in the world, but it seems
to me that all new works could easily be made available in digital form.


It's a much easier task to create, hold and distribute an electronic
copy, than print, house and distribute a printed book. Today "all"
books/articles etc. are written on a computer and are already in some
digital format of one type or another. Converting them into a PDF or
some other adopted standard would be extremely easy. It would be far
easier and cheaper to maintain and distribute digital information than
maintaining a brick library or if held by a brick and mortar library, it
could be done with little extra cost.



DRM at work. They don't work on iPods because they use Windows DRM.
I've never actually used any of those from my public library because
the restrictions are just so foolish.


(I understand DRM. My comment was a just dig at IPODS, and Microsoft)
Maybe the specific protection scheme is cumbersome, but I don't
understand why you think it is foolish. It is a system for information
that is covered by copywrite. You don't own the information you
download, you just "borrow" it, like you do now when you check out a
book at a library.


I figure it's resistance from authors, publishers etc that keeps this
from happening. The music industry, with alot of kicking and screaming,
has made/is making this transition. IMO, this change has expanded the
variety of music available instead of relying on "the industry" to pick,
not the best music, but the music they feel will make them the most
money. I think it's a logical step for the "printed" word. The only
reason that this change hasn't been "forced" by the public (like it was
with music) is that there isn't YET a way to read these digitized words
that is as easy and satisfying as using printed media.


That's how I look at it but I'm sure I'm missing some salient points.

Willi

wrote:

Most are, including deep archives, but if you mean "online
availability of scientific journals from my living room" then the
answer is economics won't allow it, at least not now. Tim has pointed
out some of the issues. You should be able to access many online if
you darken the doorway of the library at Colorado State. We see
independent researchers at our place every day.


But why should I have to go there?

I would think that it costs more for a library to offer the physical
facilities and equipment to provide online access to the journals at the
library than it would to provide it for home use.

What am I missing here?

Willi

Willi wrote:

I figure it's resistance from authors, publishers etc that keeps this
from happening. The music industry, with alot of kicking and screaming,
has made/is making this transition. IMO, this change has expanded the
variety of music available instead of relying on "the industry" to pick,
not the best music, but the music they feel will make them the most
money. I think it's a logical step for the "printed" word. The only
reason that this change hasn't been "forced" by the public (like it was
with music) is that there isn't YET a way to read these digitized words
that is as easy and satisfying as using printed media.


That's how I look at it but I'm sure I'm missing some salient points.

Publishers and authors in all the various media are always suspicious
and fearful of change, and for good reason. It threatens to dilute the
value of their intellectual property. Whether they're justified in these
fears or not, the fact is that their interests as producers and owners
of content aren't congruent with your interests as a consumer of content.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"Willi" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Most are, including deep archives, but if you mean "online
availability of scientific journals from my living room" then the
answer is economics won't allow it, at least not now. Tim has pointed
out some of the issues. You should be able to access many online if
you darken the doorway of the library at Colorado State. We see
independent researchers at our place every day.


But why should I have to go there?

I would think that it costs more for a library to offer the physical
facilities and equipment to provide online access to the journals at the
library than it would to provide it for home use.

What am I missing here?

Control issues. There is a lot of money at stake here. E-texts are, by
their very nature, easier to copy, reproduce, and distribute than old
fashioned printed materials. Anybody with a computer can do it.

Wolfgang