Turning a fish upside down

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"daytripper" wrote


to avoid having to use a net. Coupled with a barbless
hook it's about the least stressful way to turn a caught fish loose...

/daytripper (Keep watching, all kinds of neat tricks out there :-)



it does work very well

BUT

I still carry a net on waters where bigger fish are a real possibilty ....
the net allows me to subdue a big, hot, fish, faster, when he's not so
tired yet. I can get him in a net sooner than I would be able to "grab"
him. Once in the net and still thrashing, I turn him upside down to
make dehooking easier .... and it's been a few years since I fished with a
barbed hook ( yeah I "early release" a few more than I did with barbed
hooks, but that isn't a big deal )


Yes, that's exactly what the angler did, get the fish in the net first,
then turn it upside down to unhook and release.
I didn't know a fish would lose equilibrium in water if they were
turned upside down.
Man doesn't lose equilibrium in water.
-tom

"Tom Nakashima" wrote

Man doesn't lose equilibrium in water.
-tom



You have OBVIOUSLY NEVER seen me attempt to wade

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote

Man doesn't lose equilibrium in water.
-tom


You have OBVIOUSLY NEVER seen me attempt to wade

LOL...
Hey, my friend fantasizes of banging a mermaid someday,
I better tell him to be on top.
-tom

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

Man doesn't lose equilibrium in water.

Not true.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

Man doesn't lose equilibrium in water.

Not true.

Wolfgang

You're right,
Man can lose equilibrium out of water as well.
-tom

"Wolfgang" wrote in news:5s5gs2F153pe0U1
@mid.individual.net:


"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

Man doesn't lose equilibrium in water.

Not true.

Wolfgang



Correct. The semicircular canals have no problem, but the otolith organs
get confused because there is a bouyancy in addition to gravity. How
this manifests is interesting, but the bottom line is that a diver can
become very disoriented in water, enough that the most reliable way of
telling "which way is up" is to follow your air bubbles.

It's much like microgravity during space travel. Oddly, divers don't get
microgravity sickness like 50% of the astronauts, but that might have
something to do with the lenght of exposure.

One of the things that really gets astronauts hurling is odd visual cues.
Some of the compartments on the space station and shuttle, for example,
have different "up" directions, simply because thats how the things were
built. Walking (or floating) from a room with one orientation to the
next with different orientation could very well be the trigger for the
ride on the porcelain bus.

Underwater, though, I suppose visual cues can be very limited, and this
might contribute to disorientation.

I don't know why fish go into some sort of paralytic state when held
upside down, but it might be vestibular. Would be very interesting to
find out, anyway.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Wolfgang" wrote in news:5s5gs2F153pe0U1
@mid.individual.net:


"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

Man doesn't lose equilibrium in water.

Not true.

Wolfgang



Correct. The semicircular canals have no problem, but the otolith organs
get confused because there is a bouyancy in addition to gravity. How
this manifests is interesting, but the bottom line is that a diver can
become very disoriented in water, enough that the most reliable way of
telling "which way is up" is to follow your air bubbles.

It's much like microgravity during space travel. Oddly, divers don't get
microgravity sickness like 50% of the astronauts, but that might have
something to do with the lenght of exposure.

One of the things that really gets astronauts hurling is odd visual cues.
Some of the compartments on the space station and shuttle, for example,
have different "up" directions, simply because thats how the things were
built. Walking (or floating) from a room with one orientation to the
next with different orientation could very well be the trigger for the
ride on the porcelain bus.

Underwater, though, I suppose visual cues can be very limited, and this
might contribute to disorientation.

It does. In addition, there are many other cues (besides the vestibular
system and vision) that we normally use to determine orientation and
maintain equilibrium. For one thing, there's simple upright posture. When
horizontal, the human default condition is motionless. Most people don't
have much trouble adjusting to such acitivities as swimming, for example,
but some folks never can manage to overcome disorientation whenever moving
while horizontal. While the vestibular system and visual cues are certainly
involved here (usually) the kinesthetic sense is also crucially important.
Your arms naturally hang "down." There is pressure on the bottoms of the
feet. The head is balanced atop the neck. These are merely some of the
more obvious cues. Others are much more subtle.....so much so that one
never notices them on a conscious level. Hold your arm out and relax the
muscles in your forearm....the wrist bends downward. Easily felt when you
pay attention. But put your hand on a table (palm up or down....it doesn't
matter) and relax. Can you feel the effects of gravity pulling the fingers
down? Probably not. But the brain knows.

I don't know why fish go into some sort of paralytic state when held
upside down, but it might be vestibular.

They don't always. For some fish, being upside down is a normal condition.
Think, remoras, for example. Even in the context under consideration here,
they don't always go limp when held upside down. As for what causes them to
do so when they do, it doesn't seem likely to me that its a function of the
vestibular system. Remember that this particular system is well insulated
from outside influences by being contained within the head, and just about
any fish must often find itself in other than an upright orientation.
Other factors would apopear to be more likely.


Would be very interesting to
find out, anyway.

Yep, and probably not too difficult to devise some simple experiments.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote in news:5s5npoF16gia9U1
@mid.individual.net:

the kinesthetic sense is also crucially important.

You've been reading too much Mittelsteadt (sp?).

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Wolfgang" wrote in news:5s5npoF16gia9U1
@mid.individual.net:

the kinesthetic sense is also crucially important.

You've been reading too much Mittelsteadt (sp?).

Never heard of her/him.

By the way, I don't know what the "otolith organs" in fish are, but I'll
assume they are analogous to the vestibular maculae (the utricle and the
saccule) in humans. If so, their function is the perception of linear
acceleration and thus buoyancy and gravity, in and of themselves, would have
nothing whatsoever to do with a fish getting confused by being upside
down......it is movement, and not position, that they respond to. And the
semicircular canals are simply vessels filled with a fluid whose inertia
causes it to move relative to the stereocilia on hair cells in the
epithelium of cristae ampullaris to detect angular acceleration. Thus, it
is accurate but misleading to state that "the semicircular canals have no
problem." In any case, once again, these vestibular endorgans detect
motion, not position.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Wolfgang" wrote in news:5s5npoF16gia9U1
@mid.individual.net:

the kinesthetic sense is also crucially important.

You've been reading too much Mittelsteadt (sp?).

Never heard of her/him.

By the way, I don't know what the "otolith organs" in fish are, but I'll
assume they are analogous to the vestibular maculae (the utricle and the
saccule) in humans. If so, their function is the perception of linear
acceleration and thus buoyancy and gravity, in and of themselves, would
have nothing whatsoever to do with a fish getting confused by being upside
down......
Wolfgang

Otoliths are better known as earstones. They are calcium carbonate
structures which are located behind the brain of bony fish. They are used
to aid fish in balance and hearing in the same way the inner ear provides
balance in humans.
The three otoliths a
Sagitta - which is the largest of the 3-pairs and are used for the
detection of sound and converting sound waves into electrical signals.
Asteriscus - which is the detection of sound and the process of hearing.
Lapillus - which detects the gravitational forces and sound.

Catfish have no problem swimming upside down or loss of equilibrium.
Studies have found it is the swim bladder that maintains the upside-down
swimming position, and postural control in catfish.
-tom