Turning a fish upside down

"rw" wrote in message
...
rw wrote:
Tom Nakashima wrote:

I've been watching the "New Fly Fisher" which broadcast Sunday
mornings. Yesterday I learned that if you turn a fish upside down
while they're in the water, they'll lose equilibrium and won't struggle.
Makes it easy to unhook and release them.
-tom


It works with trout, but (in my experience) with whitefish.

Should be: NOT with whitefish.


I guess you know the question's coming...
Why not whitefish, are their octavo-lateralis system different than trout?
-tom

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:

Why not whitefish, are their octavo-lateralis system different than
trout?

So far as I can remember, both have auditory, linear acceleration,
rotational acceleration, and lateral line components. We used to be
taught, by the way, that lateral line was to hold fish steady in a current.
Best evidence these days, which is extremely different from where we were
15 years ago, seems to be that the lateral line is for hunting (vibration
localization), and not for orientation in a current. Bony fish have
perfectly good semicircular canal and otolith systems for help with
orientation.

I think it remains to be seen whether the octavolateralis system is
involved in this semi-paralytic response.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On Dec 10, 3:04 pm, Scott Seidman wrote:

I think it remains to be seen whether the octavolateralis system is
involved in this semi-paralytic response.

Did you ever get that article written, Scott, or are you just going to
dribble it out to us here on ROFF?

:-)

Bill

wrote in news:47c8d298-e88e-4a0c-86d6-
:

On Dec 10, 3:04 pm, Scott Seidman wrote:

I think it remains to be seen whether the octavolateralis system is
involved in this semi-paralytic response.

Did you ever get that article written, Scott, or are you just going to
dribble it out to us here on ROFF?

:-)

Bill



We'll just dribble it along for a while. I have real articles I need to
write first. I think the biggest obstacle has been the need for an
artist-- oh, and of course, someone willing to PAY!! I write articles for
free (or, in fact, pay page charges to publish them) for a living. The
hobby, though, I need money for. I think if I actually shopped it out, I
could get at least a beefy article in one of the flyfishing rags. I'm
pretty sure I could put it in TROUT, but I'm not sure if TU would pay.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:

Why not whitefish, are their octavo-lateralis system different than
trout?

So far as I can remember, both have auditory, linear acceleration,
rotational acceleration, and lateral line components. We used to be
taught, by the way, that lateral line was to hold fish steady in a
current.
Best evidence these days, which is extremely different from where we were
15 years ago, seems to be that the lateral line is for hunting (vibration
localization), and not for orientation in a current. Bony fish have
perfectly good semicircular canal and otolith systems for help with
orientation.

I think it remains to be seen whether the octavolateralis system is
involved in this semi-paralytic response.
Scott
Reverse name to reply

I was doing some research on lateral line, yes it seems they're used for
detection of vibration localization to sense movement. A good example
would be watching fish swim in schools when they dart in the same direction
and maintain a tight group.

I'm going to take a stab...
Sensitivity to sound differs among fish species. Probably the biggest factor
is how the inner ear reacts with the swim bladder. The swim bladder is the
gas filled sac which maintains buoyancy. Since fish relay on sound pressure
waves, I'm thinking, by turning a fish upside down it upsets how the brain
interprets the sound pressure and they become disoriented to a state of
docilely.
-tom

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:

Since fish relay on sound pressure
waves, I'm thinking, by turning a fish upside down it upsets how the
brain interprets the sound pressure and they become disoriented to a
state of docilely.


Tough to say. I'd think that simply moving it out of water then would
cause all sorts of impedence-matching problems, but you're right in that
this seems to be a fairly complex multi-sensory system.

Also, sensitivity to sound in different fish seems mostly related to the
size of the fish.

If you're real interested, I think the online version of J Comp Biol might
be free this month-- at least I remember something about this in an email.
My last go around with this stuff, much of the info seemed to come from
this journal.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
the
size of the fish.

If you're real interested, I think the online version of J Comp Biol might
be free this month-- at least I remember something about this in an email.
My last go around with this stuff, much of the info seemed to come from
this journal.
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Thanks Scott,
Yes, I'm very much interested and will look into it.
http://www.liebertpub.com/publication.aspx?pub_id=31
-tom

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in news:fjm81b$hp4$1
@news.Stanford.EDU:

http://www.liebertpub.com/publication.aspx?pub_id=31


Ooops, I meant Journal of Comparative Biology, or perhaps Integrative and
Comparative Biology. Sorry I can't be more specific, but it was a glimpse
at a quickly deleted email. Of course, it might have been talking about
the J. Comp. Biol. that you've already found. Something tells me, though,
that you can scrape up institutional subscriptions if you really want to!


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Tom Nakashima wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
...

rw wrote:

Tom Nakashima wrote:


I've been watching the "New Fly Fisher" which broadcast Sunday
mornings. Yesterday I learned that if you turn a fish upside down
while they're in the water, they'll lose equilibrium and won't struggle.
Makes it easy to unhook and release them.
-tom


It works with trout, but (in my experience) with whitefish.


Should be: NOT with whitefish.



I guess you know the question's coming...
Why not whitefish, are their octavo-lateralis system different than trout?
-tom

I don't know why. It just seems to be the case. In general, I find
whitefish to be far less cooperative than trout when it comes to
removing hooks.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.