waterboarding

Dave LaCourse wrote:

There is no double standard. They practice REAL torture. Ask John
McCain.

Good source. He's already been asked if waterboarding was REAL
torture, and he's repeatedly said yes, it is. The only
Republican candidate who actually knows what he's talking about
on the subject is the only one who doesn't waffle and prevaricate
on the subject -- or feel the need to thump his chest and pretend
to be some Jack Bauer tough guy.

- JR

"JR" wrote in message
...
Dave LaCourse wrote:

There is no double standard. They practice REAL torture. Ask John
McCain.

Good source. He's already been asked if waterboarding was REAL
torture, and he's repeatedly said yes, it is. The only
Republican candidate who actually knows what he's talking about
on the subject is the only one who doesn't waffle and prevaricate
on the subject -- or feel the need to thump his chest and pretend
to be some Jack Bauer tough guy.

- JR

This hasn't been used in a while, so here goes!

Why do you hate America, JR? :~^ )

Op

"rb608" wrote in message
news:%xsdj.6464$oh5.2546@trndny08...
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
If waterboarding would save the life of your wife, children, and
boyfriend, would you be in favor of it? Yeah, me too.

Turn that around. Suppose your wife or child was mistakenly taken captive
by a foreign government who thought they had valuable information. Would
it be okay if they were waterboarded? Hell no; and that's the same
outrage you should have when our country does it.

With all due respect, the false choice you posit is bull****. It assumes
that you *know* you have the right person, you *know* they possess the
information you seek, you *know* that information is valid and timely, and
you *know* they will give you the correct information under torture. But,
the fact is, you can know none of that with certainty before you begin the
torture. Further, even with information you glean in that manner, you
can't be certain it is truth or made up to stop the torture. IOW, you're
going on an inhuman fishing expedition (OBROFF).

Torture is one of those crimes that simply cannot be excused. There can
be no double standard. If we can do it to them, they can do it to us. If
we can do it to save our children, they can do it to our children with the
same moral authority. I cannot excuse or condone that.

Joe F.

sure beats beheading

"Ray or Bobbi Adams" wrote in message
...

"rb608" wrote in message
news:%xsdj.6464$oh5.2546@trndny08...
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
If waterboarding would save the life of your wife, children, and
boyfriend, would you be in favor of it? Yeah, me too.

Turn that around. Suppose your wife or child was mistakenly taken
captive by a foreign government who thought they had valuable
information. Would it be okay if they were waterboarded? Hell no; and
that's the same outrage you should have when our country does it.

With all due respect, the false choice you posit is bull****. It assumes
that you *know* you have the right person, you *know* they possess the
information you seek, you *know* that information is valid and timely,
and you *know* they will give you the correct information under torture.
But, the fact is, you can know none of that with certainty before you
begin the torture. Further, even with information you glean in that
manner, you can't be certain it is truth or made up to stop the torture.
IOW, you're going on an inhuman fishing expedition (OBROFF).

Torture is one of those crimes that simply cannot be excused. There can
be no double standard. If we can do it to them, they can do it to us.
If we can do it to save our children, they can do it to our children with
the same moral authority. I cannot excuse or condone that.

Joe F.

sure beats beheading

Not necessarily.

Op

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:34:05 -0500, "Opus--Mark H. Bowen"
wrote:

Not necessarily.

You would rather have your head chopped off than be waterboarded?
Hahahahahaha. You are a nitwit.

Davie

In article ,
"Opus--Mark H. Bowen" wrote:

"Ray or Bobbi Adams" wrote in message
...

"rb608" wrote in message
news:%xsdj.6464$oh5.2546@trndny08...
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
If waterboarding would save the life of your wife, children, and
boyfriend, would you be in favor of it? Yeah, me too.

Turn that around. Suppose your wife or child was mistakenly taken
captive by a foreign government who thought they had valuable
information. Would it be okay if they were waterboarded? Hell no; and
that's the same outrage you should have when our country does it.

With all due respect, the false choice you posit is bull****. It assumes
that you *know* you have the right person, you *know* they possess the
information you seek, you *know* that information is valid and timely,
and you *know* they will give you the correct information under torture.
But, the fact is, you can know none of that with certainty before you
begin the torture. Further, even with information you glean in that
manner, you can't be certain it is truth or made up to stop the torture.
IOW, you're going on an inhuman fishing expedition (OBROFF).

Torture is one of those crimes that simply cannot be excused. There can
be no double standard. If we can do it to them, they can do it to us.
If we can do it to save our children, they can do it to our children with
the same moral authority. I cannot excuse or condone that.

Joe F.

sure beats beheading

Not necessarily.

Op

As a guy who got waterboarded at SERE let me assure you that beheading
(which I admit to not having endured) is likely worse.

"Ray or Bobbi Adams" wrote in message
...

"rb608" wrote in message
news:%xsdj.6464$oh5.2546@trndny08...
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
If waterboarding would save the life of your wife, children, and
boyfriend, would you be in favor of it? Yeah, me too.

Turn that around. Suppose your wife or child was mistakenly taken
captive by a foreign government who thought they had valuable
information. Would it be okay if they were waterboarded? Hell no; and
that's the same outrage you should have when our country does it.

With all due respect, the false choice you posit is bull****. It assumes
that you *know* you have the right person, you *know* they possess the
information you seek, you *know* that information is valid and timely,
and you *know* they will give you the correct information under torture.
But, the fact is, you can know none of that with certainty before you
begin the torture. Further, even with information you glean in that
manner, you can't be certain it is truth or made up to stop the torture.
IOW, you're going on an inhuman fishing expedition (OBROFF).

Torture is one of those crimes that simply cannot be excused. There can
be no double standard. If we can do it to them, they can do it to us.
If we can do it to save our children, they can do it to our children with
the same moral authority. I cannot excuse or condone that.

Joe F.

sure beats beheading

O.k.

Wolfgang
who has long made it a matter of policy never to disagree about the
disagreeability of something disagreeable with someone who has been
subjected to it.

On Dec 29, 5:38 am, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:24:29 -0800, rw

wrote:
It's torture. Plain and simple.

I am so disgusted with our government.

Put it this way:

If waterboarding would save the life of your wife, children, and
boyfriend, would you be in favor of it? Yeah, me too.

Torture is pain. There is no pain in waterboarding. And it lasts
only 25 seconds. If it saves lives, waterboard away.

Nice troll, btw. d;o)

LaCourse

It was our ideal not our land or material wealth that made us a great
nation. Review the history or the 15 and 16 century. Royalty ran
rampant over the rights of the common man. People were thrown and
left in jail with no reason. Confessions obtained under torture were
valid.
The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were published
widely and studied by scholars and statement. Some indivulas had
written about the rights of man, but no groups of men ever risk their
all in open armed defiance.
It was the expression of ideals that made us great.
Are you willing to discard those ideal just because of a few rag
heads.
Read the bill of rights and see how well they protected us ( if you
just apply it to a few you apply it to all of us).
When we abandon our ideals we become a bunch of gangsters just like
the people were fighting. Battles of ideals are always fought best
from the moral high ground.
Torture has gone on in wars before; ever hear the rumors of the VC
that flew out of the Hueys into the Tonkin gulf.
Torture gets you answers but it usually get you the truth. With just
the equipment carried by the average fly-fisherman I'll bet you could
be made to confess to giving MC a blow job and enjoying it so much
that you want to do it again.

"BJ Conner" wrote in message
Torture gets you answers but it usually get you the truth. With just
the equipment carried by the average fly-fisherman I'll bet you could
be made to confess to giving MC a blow job and enjoying it so much
that you want to do it again.

You made a statement and disproved your own premise in only two sentences.
Beautifully done.

Joe F.

"rb608" wrote in message
news:S7zdj.544$yv5.147@trndny07...
"BJ Conner" wrote in message
Torture gets you answers but it usually get you the truth. With just
the equipment carried by the average fly-fisherman I'll bet you could
be made to confess to giving MC a blow job and enjoying it so much
that you want to do it again.

You made a statement and disproved your own premise in only two sentences.
Beautifully done.

Joe F.

I couldn't make heads nor tails of what BC wrote. My hat is off to you sir!

Op