The other adult beverage.....

jeff miller wrote:
rw wrote:

Wolfgang wrote:

One day last week, Becky stopped by with some freshly roasted and
ground Colombian caranavi.



You should get whole beans and grind your own as needed. Ground coffee
loses its freshness quickly. Keep it in the freezer in a sealed
container.


the freezer thing isn't a good idea in my opinion.

That's what the sea;ed container is for.

I have no interest in roasting my own beans, or growing them for that
matter.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

rw wrote:

jeff miller wrote:

rw wrote:

Wolfgang wrote:

One day last week, Becky stopped by with some freshly roasted and
ground Colombian caranavi.




You should get whole beans and grind your own as needed. Ground
coffee loses its freshness quickly. Keep it in the freezer in a
sealed container.


the freezer thing isn't a good idea in my opinion.


That's what the sea;ed container is for.

I have no interest in roasting my own beans, or growing them for that
matter.


i don't roast them either...though like flytying i reckon it would be
sportin a time or two just for the experience. but, i still think the
freezer is an unnecessary effort for roasted coffee beans...even in
sealed containers. i'm sure others agree with you.

jeff

On Jan 11, 1:04 am, rw wrote:
jeff miller wrote:
rw wrote:

Wolfgang wrote:

One day last week, Becky stopped by with some freshly roasted and
ground Colombian caranavi.

You should get whole beans and grind your own as needed. Ground coffee
loses its freshness quickly. Keep it in the freezer in a sealed
container.

the freezer thing isn't a good idea in my opinion.

That's what the sea;ed container is for.

I have no interest in roasting my own beans, or growing them for that
matter.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Actually, it does not seem to make a difference. After a couple of
days, the roasted beans also start losing aroma. The ground beans lose
it even more quickly. After a week at most, even in the freezer, it
just tastes like "ordinary" ground coffee from the packet. Vacuum
sealing also makes little difference. We tried that a few times, ( not
easy to do either! You need a special filter to avoid sucking up the
coffee, but still evacuate and seal the bag! ) but there is a major
difference in taste once the roasted beans or the ground coffee simply
ages. Most of the ground coffee and beans sold in supermarkets etc,
even the very expensive stuff, is sold in vacuum sealed bags, but it
still does not taste like freshly roasted and ground coffee.

Finally, we used a dark glass laboratory storage jar with a glass
stopper seal which somebody gave us, and recommended. ( Can´t say I
noticed much difference with that either!). The only thing that made a
really noticeable difference was to use freshly roasted, ( and of
course after the "resting" time) and ground beans. I usually set the
roaster going about twice a week to keep my wife supplied, and I only
roasted a relatively small amount each time. A maximum of half a
pound, and often only 2...300 grams.

As I said, I really only did it for my wife, and some of her friends
who just loved the taste of fresh coffee, and some were real coffee
freaks, I was initially largely indifferent to the whole thing, but
even I could taste the difference easily, and I enjoyed quite a few of
the results, whereas I would not even have drunk most coffee normally.

It is something you just don´t know until you actually taste the
difference. It is also not that subtle a difference. It is the
difference between something that tastes pleasant, and something that
really doesn´t. It also has the side effect of putting people off the
"normal" stuff, ( whatever that is, I mean the ground coffee sold in
supermarkets etc, which many people here drink). Once they have tasted
a good freshly roasted freshly ground coffee, all they do is moan
about the other stuff!

One or two people also insisted there must be some tricks involved to
get coffee to taste like that, but I don´t known any such tricks. I
simply roasted it and ground it. Even the cheapest tastes better than
the most expensive ready ground coffee. One has to watch a few things,
which have already been mentioned here, like grounds size, and
whatever method or preparation is used must be right, but otherwise it
is not that difficult.

I imagine to get into all the subtleties of blending and all the other
involved things would take a very long time indeed, but I only did it
so my wife could have a nice cup of coffee. It was also actually
considerably cheaper than buying various coffees in the supermarket
etc, but I don´t know if that still holds true. Some stuff has become
very very expensive now. Probably as Steve pointed out, a result of
demand outstripping supply.

When we started doing it, there were not many people doing it, now
there are a large number of people who do it, and the machines are
pretty cheap and easily available.

MC

Mike wrote:
On Jan 11, 1:04 am, rw wrote:

jeff miller wrote:

rw wrote:

Wolfgang wrote:

One day last week, Becky stopped by with some freshly roasted and
ground Colombian caranavi.

You should get whole beans and grind your own as needed. Ground coffee
loses its freshness quickly. Keep it in the freezer in a sealed
container.

the freezer thing isn't a good idea in my opinion.

That's what the sea;ed container is for.

I have no interest in roasting my own beans, or growing them for that
matter.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.


Actually, it does not seem to make a difference.

Maybe I wasn't clear.

The freezer is for the whole roasted beans -- NOT for ground coffee.
Freezing slows down chemical reactions. Increased surface area
(grinding) accelerates chemical reactions.

If you grind coffee and don't use it right away, throw it away. The
coffee is to be ground just before you brew it. Hand-held,
electrical-powered grinders of many brands work just fine, but they're
not uniform. You have to get used to a particular grinder to get a
consistent grind.

I store the beans in the freezer in the 1 lb sealed bags they come in
until I have to open one. I put the remainder of whole beans, which
lasts about the rest of the week, into a sealed container and into the
freezer. Plastic freezer bags work fine. It's important to keep water
away from the beans -- freezer burn. This isn't nearly as important with
whole beans as with ground coffee (which should be thrown away anyway).

I'll wager that I can store 1 unopened lb of premium beans in the
freezer for one year, and tested against a "fresh" batch you wouldn't be
able to tell the difference.

BTW, my ideal average ratio is 1 oz of coffee for 6 oz of water, but it
depends on the product and your particular preferences.

All this is IMO, of course.

In the morning I grind enough for two large (1.5 cp) mugs in the morning
and that does me for the day. When I was working I drank a lot more. :-)

I'm not a coffee snob. I drink it black, loathe the fancy recipes, and
I'll gladly drink convenience-store coffee if I need a jolt. But when
I'm making it for myself I'll take the easy minimal steps necessary to
do it right.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Jan 11, 2:50 am, rw wrote:

I'll wager that I can store 1 unopened lb of premium beans in the
freezer for one year, and tested against a "fresh" batch you wouldn't be
able to tell the difference.



All these things may be true, I really have no idea, I was merely
relating what we did, and why we did it. I would not wager one way or
the other. Judging by his posts, Steve quite obviously knows a great
deal about it, so I would tend to accept his views on the details.

I don´t see any point in getting into wagers or any contention at all
on the matter. Hell I don´t even drink the stuff any more, and I only
replied in the first place because I had a little personal knowledge
and experience of roasting the beans etc. It really makes no
difference at all to me otherwise.

1. The coffee definitely tasted better, everybody who drank it agreed
on that.Even I enjoyed it, and I am not a coffee drinker
normally.Indeed I actively avoid drinking coffee normally, except
under certain very specific circumstances, although beer and coffee
are about the only general alternatives here in public places, or in
many private dwellings . Even tea is considered rather exotic, and is
actually far worse than the coffee in most places. What you will get
if you ask for tea in most places here is a quite disgusting selection
of "aromatised" (artificial to boot), and brightly coloured
phantasmagoria of tea bags, and a cup of tepid water to dunk your
choice in. I tried the various other coffees from supermarkets etc on
various occasions, and was never enamoured of any, with the exception
of a couple of Italian restaurants, and one Italian coffee shop/café
which is also 30 kilometres away, and also very expensive.
2. It was quick and easy to do. A great deal easier than driving 65
kilometres to the next city in order to find a shop selling fresh
roasted coffee beans.
3. It was very much cheaper. Although the expense was actually
irrelevant at the time, it seemed better to get something better for
less money anyway.
4. It was a little bit of ceremony, and my wife enjoyed it a lot.
5. There was some "social" aspect to it, it was always a discussion
point when we had people to visit and they tried the coffee. Some of
our guests also did it, doubtless for much the same reasons.
6. It was fun, and rather interesting in itself.
7. If somebody asked me how to get a better cup of coffee, I would
recommend doing it this way. At least trying it once. I would venture
to suggest that just roasting the beans in a pot on the stove and
crushing them with a hammer, and then a mortar and pestle would also
give good results, after a short trial, so there is no absolute
necessity for machines, and the expense is minimal. Although of course
machines simplify matters considerably.
8. Most of what I actually learned about it was really quite basic,
merely sufficient to allow me to roast/grind/prepare the coffee in a
suitable manner. We only tried a few sorts of beans, and once we found
a couple we liked we simply stuck to them. Occasionally we tried other
sorts, usually on direct recommendations from other people who had
tried them. I know nothing at all about blending etc, and would be the
wrong person to even try it anyway.
9. If freezing was any real use for extending the storage life of the
roasted beans, then the suppliers would freeze it. None of them do.
All of them use vacuum sealed packaging.
10. If you always have freshly roasted beans, and grind the beans
immediately prior to brewing the coffee, none of these problems arise.
Short term storage of two or three days is merely a matter of using a
suitable container.

That´s about all.................

MC

Steve wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:50:25 -0700, rw
wrote:


I store the beans in the freezer in the 1 lb sealed bags they come in
until I have to open one.


If you have the type of bag with a valve in it, you may want to switch
over to a mason jar or place a piece of tape over the valve. The Bosch
valves, because of the oil used, may freeze open. Not good.
OTH, if your happy, yer happy.

I buy nearly all my coffee from Peet's. No stinking valves. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Steve wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:27:23 -0700, rw
wrote:


I buy nearly all my coffee from Peet's. No stinking valves. :-)


The man that started it all, in America anyway.

Peet's has everything you need. It's a very classy outfit, but you might
pay a premium price.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

I don't see the point in decafinated coffee, unless you're prone to
migraine headaches.

I can taste the difference between good coffee and bad coffee, but I
don't drink coffee for the taste. I drink it for the jolt, but while
getting the jolt I want the best taste if I'm doing it myself.

A couple of days ago I was in Chinatown in San Francisco It was cold and
raining. My companion and I decided we needed a cup of tea to warm up,
so we stopped into a "tea tasting" place. I wanted a teabag of Lipton's
with milk and sugar, which I'm used to, but no, not that.

We were treated to an hour-long session of tasting various freshly
brewed Chinese teas. It was great! Every tea was remarkably different
from every other. The server was super attentive and informative and
good-humored. When I walked out I had the caffeine jolt, in spades.

I bought four oz of Pearl Jasmine.

The next day I toured the wine country of Sonoma and tasted at three
wineries. I was OK, and I bought some wine, but the tea tasting was more
challenging and interesting to my palate.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Steve wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:55:46 -0700, rw
wrote:


My companion and I decided we needed a cup of tea to warm up,
so we stopped into a "tea tasting" place.


We'll be in The City this weekend.
Would you share the name of this place?

I don't remember the name but it's on the east side of Grant Ave in
Chinatown.

They recommended a sushi restaurant named, I believe, Sushi Roc
(excellent) which was down the street, I believe on Pine St. just to the
right off Grant. If you go there they may be able to point you to the
tea place.

I think their tea prices are way out of line, so don't buy much.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote in message
m...
Steve wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:27:23 -0700, rw
wrote:


I buy nearly all my coffee from Peet's. No stinking valves. :-)


I also like Peets Coffee,
Have you tried the Major Dickerson's blend? Good stuff.
I know you mentioned about freezing the beans over a long period of time.
I believe you said; freeze for 1 yr. and you wouldn't be able to tell the
difference against fresh batch of unfrozen for taste.
Coffee beans will eventually absorbed moisture and they will break down,
unless it was vacuum sealed.
Next time you're in Peets, ask them how often they turn-around their
incoming coffee beans...I think you'll be surprised.
-tom