The other adult beverage.....

Steve wrote:

Coffee is stale 7 days out of the roaster. Nitrogen loading and/or
freezing doesn't change that much. Intensive studies have been done
looking for a way to change that without much success. Unfortunately,
there just isn't a way to get fresh coffee unless one roasts or has a
roaster they trust nearby.
Trivia: most Americans that drink coffee have never had fresh coffee.
That's not a put down, just an interesting (to me at least), factoid.

We've always been fortunate to have fresh roasted whole beans
available locally. There really is no comparing fresh beans
with stale and like you say if it's 7 days out of the roaster
it's already stale.

I've never had the urge to roast my own, we lived in the same
block with The Coffee and Tea Exchange when we lived in Chicago
and while the roasting filled the neighborhood with wonderful
smells I wouldn't want my whole house to smell like that.

We're not connoisseurs at all but we both like arabica beans
roasted to exactly second crack. That's a little darker than
what the connoisseurs like but both of our local roasters have
varieties they roast that way. We buy a pound of whole beans a
week on the day it's roasted and grind it as we go. Our grinder
holds a pound of beans so that works out well.

At home I drip grind through a gold cone filter into a thermal
carafe and camping I use a Melitta cone and paper filters into
a thermos. The paper filter makes it easier to dispose of the
grounds while camping.

We used to drink a lot more coffee than we do now, in fact we
sometimes have beans left in the grinder we have to toss after
a week. I drink two, three cups max in the morning and that's
it anymore. When I was a computer weenie I'd drink coffee and
smoke Marlboros all day long. It was like an occupational hazard. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Steve wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:27:23 -0700, rw
wrote:


I buy nearly all my coffee from Peet's. No stinking valves. :-)


The man that started it all, in America anyway.

Peet's has everything you need. It's a very classy outfit, but you might
pay a premium price.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Jan 11, 2:50 am, rw wrote:

I'll wager that I can store 1 unopened lb of premium beans in the
freezer for one year, and tested against a "fresh" batch you wouldn't be
able to tell the difference.



All these things may be true, I really have no idea, I was merely
relating what we did, and why we did it. I would not wager one way or
the other. Judging by his posts, Steve quite obviously knows a great
deal about it, so I would tend to accept his views on the details.

I don´t see any point in getting into wagers or any contention at all
on the matter. Hell I don´t even drink the stuff any more, and I only
replied in the first place because I had a little personal knowledge
and experience of roasting the beans etc. It really makes no
difference at all to me otherwise.

1. The coffee definitely tasted better, everybody who drank it agreed
on that.Even I enjoyed it, and I am not a coffee drinker
normally.Indeed I actively avoid drinking coffee normally, except
under certain very specific circumstances, although beer and coffee
are about the only general alternatives here in public places, or in
many private dwellings . Even tea is considered rather exotic, and is
actually far worse than the coffee in most places. What you will get
if you ask for tea in most places here is a quite disgusting selection
of "aromatised" (artificial to boot), and brightly coloured
phantasmagoria of tea bags, and a cup of tepid water to dunk your
choice in. I tried the various other coffees from supermarkets etc on
various occasions, and was never enamoured of any, with the exception
of a couple of Italian restaurants, and one Italian coffee shop/café
which is also 30 kilometres away, and also very expensive.
2. It was quick and easy to do. A great deal easier than driving 65
kilometres to the next city in order to find a shop selling fresh
roasted coffee beans.
3. It was very much cheaper. Although the expense was actually
irrelevant at the time, it seemed better to get something better for
less money anyway.
4. It was a little bit of ceremony, and my wife enjoyed it a lot.
5. There was some "social" aspect to it, it was always a discussion
point when we had people to visit and they tried the coffee. Some of
our guests also did it, doubtless for much the same reasons.
6. It was fun, and rather interesting in itself.
7. If somebody asked me how to get a better cup of coffee, I would
recommend doing it this way. At least trying it once. I would venture
to suggest that just roasting the beans in a pot on the stove and
crushing them with a hammer, and then a mortar and pestle would also
give good results, after a short trial, so there is no absolute
necessity for machines, and the expense is minimal. Although of course
machines simplify matters considerably.
8. Most of what I actually learned about it was really quite basic,
merely sufficient to allow me to roast/grind/prepare the coffee in a
suitable manner. We only tried a few sorts of beans, and once we found
a couple we liked we simply stuck to them. Occasionally we tried other
sorts, usually on direct recommendations from other people who had
tried them. I know nothing at all about blending etc, and would be the
wrong person to even try it anyway.
9. If freezing was any real use for extending the storage life of the
roasted beans, then the suppliers would freeze it. None of them do.
All of them use vacuum sealed packaging.
10. If you always have freshly roasted beans, and grind the beans
immediately prior to brewing the coffee, none of these problems arise.
Short term storage of two or three days is merely a matter of using a
suitable container.

That´s about all.................

MC

103 posts on coffee snobbery! (no I didn't read hardly any!)

Our civilization has definitely peaked. Downhill from here...

Jon.

I don't see the point in decafinated coffee, unless you're prone to
migraine headaches.

I can taste the difference between good coffee and bad coffee, but I
don't drink coffee for the taste. I drink it for the jolt, but while
getting the jolt I want the best taste if I'm doing it myself.

A couple of days ago I was in Chinatown in San Francisco It was cold and
raining. My companion and I decided we needed a cup of tea to warm up,
so we stopped into a "tea tasting" place. I wanted a teabag of Lipton's
with milk and sugar, which I'm used to, but no, not that.

We were treated to an hour-long session of tasting various freshly
brewed Chinese teas. It was great! Every tea was remarkably different
from every other. The server was super attentive and informative and
good-humored. When I walked out I had the caffeine jolt, in spades.

I bought four oz of Pearl Jasmine.

The next day I toured the wine country of Sonoma and tasted at three
wineries. I was OK, and I bought some wine, but the tea tasting was more
challenging and interesting to my palate.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

wrote:
103 posts on coffee snobbery! (no I didn't read hardly any!)

Our civilization has definitely peaked. Downhill from here...

Jon.

Well, it's cabin fever time.

The best canned ground coffee, IMO, is Yuban. I never buy it any longer,
though, and haven't for some time, nor any others of that class, so
beware of my opinion.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

One thing that struck me, Wolfie, in your original post:
you wrote that you didn't wish to embark on the learning required to enjoy
wine, or words to that effect. I would disagree.....while ongoing education
is a fine thing, it is not necessary to enjoy certain things(or, perhaps
anything).
I feel that wine, as a component of a meal, is something that can be enjoyed
without one going overboard with the details which some wine lovers impart
it. I recently saw a cartoon, someplace, in which the customer was telling
the wine steward at a restaurant,"this wine has a nutty aroma with hints of
coffee....could you bring me one that just tastes like wine?".
Also, when typing tiredly, I wrote something that meant to say 'blended
with South American or Indonesian", and came out hilariously wrong. Oops!
Finally, nice thread....especially good winter topic!
Tom

On Jan 10, 11:49*pm, wrote:
Our civilization has definitely peaked. Downhill from here...

You're being way too hard on civilization. Actually, it was a fairly
interesting and informative thread IMO. Lots of good info & opinions,
with minimal unavoidable snobbery. And don't overlook the fact that
we're about 110 posts into it without a serious flame war, despite
input from several of the usual suspects. That's gotta give
civilization a boost, eh?

Joe F.

wrote:

Even a stove-top "machine" (Bialetti Moka Express style) like I use?
According to the wikipedia article on the method (I know, I know...
man I hope Chuck doesn't see this post... :-)

Wikipedia? Wikifreakingpedia?!! And you call yourself a
librarian?!!!

:-)

and to my way of
thinking, the water/steam is actually hotter than 100C when it heads
up through the grounds. As opposed to an electric machine, which uses
pressurized 100C water. Which would also explain why espresso from
my electric machine tastes different than the stove top method, come
to think of it... (the electric machine sits in a cabinet, don't use
it very often.)

Just curious. It's all good to me!

Me too. We've been drinking a so-called "Cuban style roast" that's
done by an Austin company, and I'm totally addicted. (Poor choice of
words there ... sorry.)


Chuck Vance

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 05:40:56 -0800 (PST), rb608
wrote:

You're being way too hard on civilization. Actually, it was a fairly
interesting and informative thread IMO. Lots of good info & opinions,
with minimal unavoidable snobbery. And don't overlook the fact that
we're about 110 posts into it without a serious flame war, despite
input from several of the usual suspects. That's gotta give
civilization a boost, eh?

Ahhhh, horse puckies. You don't know what you're talking about,
nitwit. vbg