The Other Adult Beverage continued.

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:35:37 -0500, jeff miller
wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:38:58 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:


I'm puzzled by this thread. Coffee in the USA is wretchedly bad - as
bad as, say, democracy in Somalia.

Yet you're all wittering on about details of coffee-making that don't
matter a whisker unless there's a basic understanding in the country
about what constitutes decent cup of coffee.

Which isn't there.

L


It's all about personal tastes. My mom used to use Maxwell House in a
perculator. Tasted fine to me. Then I joined the Navy and drank Navy
coffee. Very strong, but I learned to drink it black (out of
necessity). I was never satisfied with the coffee my wife made
because it wasn't strong enough.

Now I use a Braun coffee make with "designer" coffee. Mr. Miller, a
famous roffian, gifted me with a coffee grinder. I honestly can not
tell the difference between freshly ground and ground coffee. But, it
satisfies my taste. There are at least a thousand other things that
concern me more than the taste of my morning coffee. I have no
trouble drinking coffee from Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, or any other
coffee shop, *as long as it isn't flavored*. Coffee is supposed to
taste like coffee, not some French vanilla bean.

Dave



hell chief, you do know that your navy experience simply seared all of
your coffee taste buds, don't you? but, on the bright side, you're
blessed with satisfaction with any and every cup of coffee offered you. g

imo, as with vodka, gin, bourbon, scotch, beer, grits, collards,
etc...individual tastes differ enough that it is often impossible to
develop reliable standards in such things. (one of the best beers i've
tasted was home-brewed by danl)

however...of one thing i'm reasonably sure, there is a huge difference
between the taste of the coffee i now make by grinding relatively fresh
beans and the coffee i purchase at a retail store or infrequently make
from a grocery store grind.

Um, well, there's a huge difference between the taste of your
fresh-ground coffee and Roquefort vinaigrette, but a steaming hot cupful
of the latter doesn't really sound like a morning beverage to
me...YMMV...

still, i have no pretense that i'm making
good coffee

Then why are you continuing to do it? I mean, if I was going to some
trouble to make something to drink and didn't like it, I'd, well, stop
doing it or something...

...it's merely much better than my old luzianne, yuban,
maxwell house, folgers, eight o'clock, etc. days. we've come a long way
baby...and we've a way to go yet.

Ah...so YOU like it better...that makes a little more sense...again,
YMMV...

TC,
R


jeff

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:14:09 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:



Espresso is a modern invention (20th century) and the type of machine
Lazarus probably uses has only been around about 60 years,

This is right, and should have been mentioned before. (mea culpa)

so it's not
like the Italians have some long, ancient history to draw upon.

As you may have seen, my argument is that they care about taste more
than most other people

But
we're talking about personal taste here, so you and Lazarus can both be
correct.

Agreed, and this is important.

So, though I prefer italian coffee, I make my (Italian) girlfriend's
coffee as well as I can every morning when I get up early enough (she,
of course, prefers filter coffee).

(In my view it should be De gustibus disputandum est - with a strong
gerundive of obligation).

We haven't talked about where it all began, with Ethiopia, and probably
the nearest thing to 'early' coffee, that we're likely to deal with,
which might be the way of making coffee known as Turkish coffee, which
I like and enjoy and drink anywhere from the Balkans through Greece,
Turkey, the Levant, to North Africa, but which is quite different from
what we've been discussing.

I'm not sure, but isn't coffee made in a briki the forerunner of
espresso? IMO, there is a (varying) difference between hot water
methods (espresso, briki, etc.) and cold-water methods (ala the
aforementioned "extract"), even when the same coffee is used. I have
heard, but can't confirm, that the reason much Greek/Turkish coffee is
so heavily-sweetened is to counterbalance the bitterness of "hot
process" boiling.

IAC, back to the chicory - the chicory used in European "mellowing" is
much less than the amount used in Creole chicory coffee IME. Have you
ever had Creole-style coffee? I mean the final product - the beverage -
rather than meaning being in possession of the coffee and chicory
itself. If not and you can obtain either the preblended coffee (or you
can use a very dark roast coffee of average quality and roasted chicory
in about 60-40 ratio), simply use about 5 heaping tablespoons (I have no
idea of the weight in grams or ounces of weight) of the blend and brew
with 4 smallish cups of water (about 5-6 fl. oz. each - 750ml total). As
to the extract, it's about 3 pounds (US) of the blend to about two
quarts/liters of coolish (not chilled) water slowly dripped into the
grounds, allowed to stand, and collected below. A cafetiere cannot used
as it's a settling method, not a press method.

TC,
R

TC,
R

L

In article ,
wrote:


I'm not sure, but isn't coffee made in a briki the forerunner of
espresso? IMO, there is a (varying) difference between hot water
methods (espresso, briki, etc.) and cold-water methods (ala the
aforementioned "extract"), even when the same coffee is used. I have
heard, but can't confirm, that the reason much Greek/Turkish coffee is
so heavily-sweetened is to counterbalance the bitterness of "hot
process" boiling.

IAC, back to the chicory - the chicory used in European "mellowing" is
much less than the amount used in Creole chicory coffee IME. Have you
ever had Creole-style coffee? I mean the final product - the beverage -
rather than meaning being in possession of the coffee and chicory
itself. If not and you can obtain either the preblended coffee (or you
can use a very dark roast coffee of average quality and roasted chicory
in about 60-40 ratio), simply use about 5 heaping tablespoons (I have no
idea of the weight in grams or ounces of weight) of the blend and brew
with 4 smallish cups of water (about 5-6 fl. oz. each - 750ml total). As
to the extract, it's about 3 pounds (US) of the blend to about two
quarts/liters of coolish (not chilled) water slowly dripped into the
grounds, allowed to stand, and collected below. A cafetiere cannot used
as it's a settling method, not a press method.

Hi Rd

I'll have to get my head round this tomorrow - it's nearly one in the
morning here and I've just realised I have a meeting at half seven
tomorrow am.

pip pip

L

best coffee make i have ever used is a bunn i can make 10 cups in bout 4
mins

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:17:05 -0700, rw
wrote:

Lazarus Cooke wrote:
I'm puzzled by this thread. Coffee in the USA is wretchedly bad - as
bad as, say, democracy in Somalia.

There's a lot of bad coffee in the USA, but in recent years it's been
getting much easier to find an excellent cup of coffee in the big cities
and high-class tourist spots. There's been something of a coffee
renaissance (and I'm not primarily talking about Starbucks, although
they've played a big role in awakening consumer awareness).

Although this could be taken to be one those "my town is better than
yours..." type of post, it isn't intended as such. That said...

New Orleans, AFAIK, is the only large city in the world in which "local"
Starbuck's couldn't make a real go of it (there are Starbuck's in hotels
and "tourist" areas) due to the local preference for local shops and
chains. Of the few pre-Katrina, most or all remain closed outside of
hotels, etc. NO has had coffee shops/local chains (Community, PJ's,
etc.) for years, and prior to the relatively recent "trendy coffee
boom." This has been true of many non-NO chains (when Rite-Aid bought
out a local chain of drugstores, K & B/Katz & Bestoff, many locals
wouldn't shop there, few "chain" restaurants survive on _local_
business, etc.). Yet, New Orleans folks aren't, generally, into
"designer" coffee. I'd say the coffee tastes, in general, are pretty
basic in coffee terms but pretty specific - Luzianne, Community, CDM,
most with but some without chicory are by far and away the brands/types
sold.

It's interesting to me to read Lazarus' post about Torre Annunziata and
compare it to NO (esp. the murder, crime, corruption...) as it (also)
sounds remarkably like NO in terms of locals, blue-collar and white-,
who simply _demand_ what they feel is good food and drink. What most,
locals and non-locals alike, would generally call "good food" is widely
available and at prices on all levels of service most reading ROFF would
call very reasonable. For example, unless one simply orders the most
expensive dishes, from start to finish, on a menu, one would be
hard-pressed to spend over $100USD on _dinner_ for two - excluding wine
or cocktails, but two cocktails and two glasses of wine can often be had
in that same range, even at the traditional upscale places (Commander's,
Galatoire's, August, the recently-thankfully-reopened Dooky Chase, the
unfortunately-postK-sliding Antoine, etc.) locals patronize. And great
food can be had all over the area, even at many local "hangout" bars and
small groceries and even the Vieux Carre, for under $10 a person. In
fact, the most expensive upscale restaurants in NO are "tourist traps"
few locals patronize (anything Emeril, some, but not all, Brennan-family
places, with the somewhat-excepted and accepted Ruth's Chris, which
began in NO).

Even "events" all over the area, like festivals, sports and gun shows,
sporting events, etc. have things well beyond the standard
hot-dog-and-nachos fa crawfish and shrimp etouffee and creole,
jambalaya, gumbo, lump crabmeat and fresh oyster dishes, real snow
cones, red- and lima beans and rice, po boys, great burgers, etc., all
made fresh, from "scratch" with good ingredients. And most local
groceries - single stores to local chains - provide a fair amount of
in-house prep on local cuisine items such as creole creme cheese, local
sausages and meat products, stuffed artichokes, etc.

I've even
bought more than decent coffee in truck stops.

I generally avoid retail-brewed coffee (unless I need a jolt while
traveling), preferring to make my own.

A similar thing has happened with beer and wine. You can find superb
wine and beer grown and made in the US, as good as anything in Europe,
although I'm sure that French wine snobs will disagree.

Have you ever tried - oh, Lordy, this will cause some guff - Texas
wines? Many are remarkably similar to French wines, esp. fine Burgundy
(ala "meritage"), and a great deal of post-1900 French wine has Texas
vinestock to thank for its existence (phylloxera). The soil conditions
and the Texas vinestock produces some fine grapes, which in
knowledgeable hands produces excellent wine at a fantastic price for
those in the US.

Of course, you
can also find plenty of disgusting swill.

One time years ago, while attending a scientific conference in Italy,
the social event was a dinner cruise on Lake Como. My American colleague
and I shared a table with a French couple. Italian wine was served, one
bottle per person, and the French couple refused even to taste it. My
colleague and I gladly drank theirs, getting pretty loaded in the
process. It was very, very good.

Perhaps the worst wine I've even tasted was at a bullfight in Madrid --
one of those stalls where they fill a bottle right from the keg. I do,
however, like Sangre de Toro.

We're even starting to make absinthe again. :-)

And speaking of stirring the ****...

TC,
R

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:27:08 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

Torre Annunziata

See my reply this thread to RW.

TC,
R

wrote:
...
Even "events" all over the area, like festivals, sports and gun shows,
sporting events, etc. have things well beyond the standard
hot-dog-and-nachos fa crawfish and shrimp etouffee and creole,
jambalaya, gumbo, lump crabmeat and fresh oyster dishes, real snow
cones, red- and lima beans and rice, po boys, great burgers, etc., all
made fresh, from "scratch" with good ingredients. ...

The food at Jazz Fest is absolutely fantastic and this is food
served on paper plates from little shacks at the Fair Grounds.
And one of the best po boys I ever had I got in the River Walk
shopping mall food court ! New Orleans is to food what a mean
Italian slum is to coffee. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:35:37 -0500, jeff miller
wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:38:58 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:


I'm puzzled by this thread. Coffee in the USA is wretchedly bad - as
bad as, say, democracy in Somalia.

Yet you're all wittering on about details of coffee-making that don't
matter a whisker unless there's a basic understanding in the country
about what constitutes decent cup of coffee.

Which isn't there.

L


It's all about personal tastes. My mom used to use Maxwell House in a
perculator. Tasted fine to me. Then I joined the Navy and drank Navy
coffee. Very strong, but I learned to drink it black (out of
necessity). I was never satisfied with the coffee my wife made
because it wasn't strong enough.

Now I use a Braun coffee make with "designer" coffee. Mr. Miller, a
famous roffian, gifted me with a coffee grinder. I honestly can not
tell the difference between freshly ground and ground coffee. But, it
satisfies my taste. There are at least a thousand other things that
concern me more than the taste of my morning coffee. I have no
trouble drinking coffee from Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, or any other
coffee shop, *as long as it isn't flavored*. Coffee is supposed to
taste like coffee, not some French vanilla bean.

Dave



hell chief, you do know that your navy experience simply seared all of
your coffee taste buds, don't you? but, on the bright side, you're
blessed with satisfaction with any and every cup of coffee offered you.
g

imo, as with vodka, gin, bourbon, scotch, beer, grits, collards,
etc...individual tastes differ enough that it is often impossible to
develop reliable standards in such things. (one of the best beers i've
tasted was home-brewed by danl)

however...of one thing i'm reasonably sure, there is a huge difference
between the taste of the coffee i now make by grinding relatively fresh
beans and the coffee i purchase at a retail store or infrequently make
from a grocery store grind.

Um, well, there's a huge difference between the taste of your
fresh-ground coffee and Roquefort vinaigrette, but a steaming hot cupful
of the latter doesn't really sound like a morning beverage to
me...YMMV...

still, i have no pretense that i'm making
good coffee

Then why are you continuing to do it? I mean, if I was going to some
trouble to make something to drink and didn't like it, I'd, well, stop
doing it or something...

...it's merely much better than my old luzianne, yuban,
maxwell house, folgers, eight o'clock, etc. days. we've come a long way
baby...and we've a way to go yet.

Ah...so YOU like it better...that makes a little more sense...again,
YMMV...

No, actually, he was speaking for the entire world.

Wolfgang
who notes that some people never quite master the trick of connecting words
and meanings.

In article ,
"Wolfgang" wrote:

Wolfgang
who notes that some people never quite master the trick of connecting words
and meanings.

Asshole whol has to resort to the ****ing of rotten pussy.

Janice wrote:
In article ,
"Wolfgang" wrote:


Wolfgang
who notes that some people never quite master the trick of connecting words
and meanings.


Asshole whol has to resort to the ****ing of rotten pussy.

wolf...this janice-thing isn't worthy of dignity or sport. she/it needs
to fester in her/its own self-created pustule.

jeff