sorta OT the price of beef

Larry L wrote:
...
As a fisherman in cattle country I'm often made aware of the fact that beef
is expensive, in many ways. Included is the damage cows do to stream
environments. The local river is now running very muddy. A drive
upstream soon locates the major source of the mud, a seasonal stream that
comes in after draining thousands of acres of ground with cattle churning it
up with ever step. ...

Dairy farmers in southern Wisconsin/Minnesota have made great strides,
with the help of TU and forward thinking folks at the respective DNRs,
in keeping the cattle out of the streams. In the 20 or so years I've
been fishing those streams I've seen enormous improvements.

I don't know what your water situation is there in California but in
the cattle country of Wyoming/Montana more damage is done to trout
streams by diverting water to grow grass than by the actual cattle.
If the cattle farmers had their way all the water would be in irrigation
ditches watering fields of cow food instead of in the trout streams.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote


Dairy farmers in southern Wisconsin/Minnesota have made great strides,
with the help of TU and forward thinking folks at the respective DNRs,



Thanks for mentioning that, Ken


Actually, when I re-read my post I feared that it would be taken as
anti-cattleMAN by some ... and it isn't

I think the last 20 years has seen great strides nearly everywhere by
ranchers and farmers to mitigate their occupation's negative impacts on
environment.

Even in the water-poor West we see more and more Ag land users volunteering
to change water uses for better efficiency, for instance.
( Not to mention ranchers setting aside easements for permanent fisherman
access such as has occurred on the Madison. Ranchers can be our best
friends, too http://tinyurl.com/343bak )

One thing 'environmentalists' need to understand is that whole industries
are not (often) the enemy, rather the uninformed, uncaring, practitioners of
nearly all industries are. We are ALL on this planet together, ALL like to
eat, ALL want to drive our cars. We need to, and increasing are, ALL work
together, realizing compromize is part of the deal ... for ALL

On Jan 23, 2:41 pm, Steve wrote:

Pumping antibiotics into cattle standing knee deep in feces and urine
which carry those antibiotics into both the food and water table
doesn't seem like a great stride forward.

I'm no veggie, but I eat a lot less meat than I used to.
I'm too lazy to hunt anymore, so I buy locally grown grassfed
beef instead. It costs twice as much, but it sure is good.

However, as someone else already pointed out--all that grass sucks
the water out of the rivers, at an alarming rate.

I think the root problem is too damn many people.
The planet was better off 50 years ago, where the primary
difference is fewer humans then and so many more now.
Humans have become a destructive pestilence on the face of the earth.

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:02:34 -0800, while-one while-one
wrote in message
:

On Jan 23, 2:41 pm, Steve wrote:

Pumping antibiotics into cattle standing knee deep in feces and urine
which carry those antibiotics into both the food and water table
doesn't seem like a great stride forward.

I'm no veggie, but I eat a lot less meat than I used to. I'm too lazy to
hunt anymore, so I buy locally grown grassfed beef instead. It costs
twice as much, but it sure is good.

However, as someone else already pointed out--all that grass sucks the
water out of the rivers, at an alarming rate.

I think the root problem is too damn many people. The planet was better
off 50 years ago, where the primary difference is fewer humans then and
so many more now. Humans have become a destructive pestilence on the
face of the earth.

there is a solution to that "problem" - you can kill or castrate yourself

--
Jim
posted from Ubuntu/Pan

On Jan 25, 3:18 pm, Jim Edmondson wrote:
there is a solution to that "problem" - you can kill or castrate
yourself

Tied tubes is less drastic
:-)

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:38:57 -0800, while-one wrote:

On Jan 25, 3:18 pm, Jim Edmondson wrote:
there is a solution to that "problem" - you can kill or castrate
yourself

Tied tubes is less drastic
:-)

I like this little Ubuntu/pan newsreader.
......a by-product of the pestilence?

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:49:25 -0600, sandy sandy
wrote in message :

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:38:57 -0800, while-one wrote:

On Jan 25, 3:18 pm, Jim Edmondson wrote:
there is a solution to that "problem" - you can kill or castrate
yourself

Tied tubes is less drastic
:-)

Oops, my assumption regarding the gender-neutral name proved once again
the old saying about assuming things. I should have used the gender-
neutral "sterilize" instead. :-)

Now if you could get the rest of the world to follow suit, you would be on
to something.


I like this little Ubuntu/pan newsreader. .....a by-product of the
pestilence?

Installed Ubuntu ~1 month ago, I like it a lot, but a lot to learn. There
is quite a dichotomy of opinion on Pan, but I like it too. Though IMHO,
nothing compares to the free Omea Reader in Windows (newgroup/RSS/ web
reader/organizer).

--
Jim
posted from Ubuntu/Pan