Long tapered leaders

rustyspinner wrote:
ugh, can't fugure out how to edit my post. Tom, try the above also. The
formula for the 5x to the right got moved too far left for the tippet.

5X:

.015.... 18-19" (maxima)
.013-----18-19" (maxima)
.044-----18-19" (maxima)
.009-----18-19" (maxima)
4X-------15" (super strong or whatever)
5X-------36" (super strong or whatever)

You can go to 6X by cutting down the 5X to 12"
You can go to 7X by cutting down the above 6X to 10-12"

Hope that helps to clarify. The 4X formula is fairly readable. Just
follow it down.



Man, you guys are really uptight about your leaders.

Was it you that wrote that knotted leaders turn over better than
knotless because the knots are "power transmitters," or something like that?

That's absurd. It's not physical. Makes no sense at all.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Man, you guys are really uptight about your leaders.

Was it you that wrote that knotted leaders turn over better than
knotless because the knots are "power transmitters," or something like
that?

That's absurd. It's not physical. Makes no sense at all.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have tried the knotless many times for dry flies and have always
found a well tied, compound leader to be more accurate. It has to do
with the energy transfer of a larger diameter section producing
sufficient force to carry into the next section, which can also be of a
softer grade. It has nothing to do with the knots.

I know it doesn't seem to make sense, but it does. It's the same thing
as a "Garrison" (compound) tapered bamboo fly rod being more efficient
and accurate than a "single" taper.

Another reason I posted this formula was because this leader has a 36"
tippet, which will cause far less surface drag than the more standard
18" tippet. There is also drag that the fisherman cannot see, but the
fish can. This is sometimes termed "micro-drag," and often causes
refusals.

I still use the knotless for nymphs, and use a shorter leader for that,
usually 7 to 9 foot. I'll even use 'em for a large bushy fly on a small
creek, no big deal.

But that's a different presentation entirely than the more "technical"
fishing, with oftentimes a tiny dry fly on complex, gin-clear braided
currents, like on a Limestoner.

This formula was also developed by an old-timer who specialized in
limestone creeks.


--
rustyspinner
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rustyspinner wrote:
Man, you guys are really uptight about your leaders.

Was it you that wrote that knotted leaders turn over better than
knotless because the knots are "power transmitters," or something like
that?

That's absurd. It's not physical. Makes no sense at all.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have tried the knotless many times for dry flies and have always
found a well tied, compound leader to be more accurate. It has to do
with the energy transfer of a larger diameter section producing
sufficient force to carry into the next section, which can also be of a
softer grade. It has nothing to do with the knots.

OK, an advantage in having a transition to a softer-grade section is at
least plausible.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote


OK, an advantage in having a transition to a softer-grade section is at
least plausible.



For the nearly nothing it's worth, I've given "Harvey Style" knotted leaders
serious testing over the years.

They are very nice casting ( dry fly 'techy water' ) but I've given up on
them. The bad side effects of all those knots outweighs the slightly
better casting ... for me ... the worst bad effects revolve mainly around
knots picking up weed ( always a problem after early season in fertile
creeks, sometimes THE problem on HFork with its heavy growths combined with
varying, dam controlled flows )


IMHO, anybody with a serious interest in fishing dry flies to very picky
fish should give a leader with a thin butt, long taper and long tippet (
basic idea of the Harvey leader ) a solid try, if only to make an educated
decision to not use them. Historically they are what is considered best
for this type of angling.


My current leader choice for, say, Silver Creek .... starts as a RIO 7.5'
3X .... I mike it and cut it off about half the 3X I tie a tippet
ring to the 3X and add tippet to suit the day. Anything from 3X to
6X works ok tied directly to the ring ( with appropriate fly ) ... 7X works
best if you make a compound tippet 5 then 7X .... my 'average' tippet is
going to run very nearly 3 feet and thus the leader is about 9 to 10.5 feet
as fished ( always balance tippet to the fly being used with some test casts
.... if you can't turn over the fly well when trying to, thicker or shorter,
..... if a gentle effort to pile slack straightens out anyway .. thinner or
longer )


I DO use a knotted leader ( a special formula very diiferent than
Harveys ) .. to use with there is high wind ( and not on my 4wt rod that I
use most often ) ... and my 'nymphing only' 6wt has a knotted leader I got
from a Borger book hat lobs lead and bobber well but still has a thin tippet
for fast sinking


On the waters I most enjoy I consider the leader and the line to be the most
important tackle items ... I don't need a fancy rod, but I feel severely
handicapped with a poor choice in either of those ( and almost always
pattern is more important than 'presentation school' anglers are willing to
believe :-)

"Larry L" wrote


My current leader choice for, say, Silver Creek .... starts as a RIO
7.5' 3X ....




Above for 'average' flies over normal size range


If it was trico time I'd start with a RIO 9ft 7X ... cut it back to 4X, add
ring, and go from there .... this gives a thinner butt and longer finished
leader that works better ... for me ... when the fish are at their most
hammered, and, thus, often, most picky best

"rw" wrote in message
m...
OK, an advantage in having a transition to a softer-grade section is at
least plausible.

for whatever reason, the Harvey design works, and works well. One advantage,
not noted, was that one seldom needs drop below 6x, even for Tricos and the
like. This leader design will present dries with a series of gentle curves
in the tippet section only, and one needn't resort to 7x, 8x tippets to fool
very wary trout in clear water.
Tom