Catch and Release Hurts our Quality of Life

On Mar 10, 2:13 pm, Willi wrote:
Halfordian Golfer wrote:
Fish are killed when caught and released.
Yes, of course, this happens. Yet, Plato, it does not matter because
human's recreation justifies it.
By that reasoning Socrates, humans can stress, maim and kill animals
for pleasure alone, this includes dogs and cats.
No, No Plato you must understand, Fish are different.
Why are they different Socrates and where will we draw the line?

That is a question that if taken to the extreme, wouldn't allow us to do
much or anything "for pleasure alone."

We play a game of baseball, we kill living things.

We go for a walk in the park, we kill living things.

Where do YOU draw the line? Insects, one celled animals,

Or why stop at animals, how about plants?

Or even bacteria and viruses?

We ALL draw a line somewhere.

Willi

Agreed. Drawing that line. It's a very interesting and exceedingly
difficult thing to try and do. For one, it's not clear that there's
even a line for a demarcation of where we would 'wantonly' stress,
maim or kill an organism. I'm not sure what other organisms we even do
that for (to?) to be honest. But, if there is a line of what organisms
we'd wantonly stress, maim or kill I'm not sure how to draw it. What
is 'above' or 'below' any such line? Is a bird above or below a fish?
Is a fish above or below a reptile? What about a bat? So "mammals"
wouldn't be an organizational boundary either I'd think.

This gets to a really, really meaty question and I'm glad to ask you.

Why do we only 'fish' for fish?

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message
...

Agreed. Drawing that line. It's a very interesting and exceedingly
difficult thing to try and do. For one, it's not clear that there's
even a line for a demarcation of where we would 'wantonly' stress,
maim or kill an organism. I'm not sure what other organisms we even do
that for (to?) to be honest. But, if there is a line of what organisms
we'd wantonly stress, maim or kill I'm not sure how to draw it. What
is 'above' or 'below' any such line? Is a bird above or below a fish?
Is a fish above or below a reptile? What about a bat? So "mammals"
wouldn't be an organizational boundary either I'd think.

This gets to a really, really meaty question and I'm glad to ask you.

Why do we only 'fish' for fish?

I guess you've never been to a rodeo. Or a bull fight, or a cock fight, or a
dog fight. Heck, have you ever seen someone break a horse? That animal
looks pretty stressed. How do you view all the various "training" that pets
go through for our companionship?

Tim, why are you so singleminded about C&R? What do you hope to accomplish?

Danl

On Mar 10, 6:37 pm, "Danl" danlfinn@*remove this*intergate.com
wrote:
"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message

...



Agreed. Drawing that line. It's a very interesting and exceedingly
difficult thing to try and do. For one, it's not clear that there's
even a line for a demarcation of where we would 'wantonly' stress,
maim or kill an organism. I'm not sure what other organisms we even do
that for (to?) to be honest. But, if there is a line of what organisms
we'd wantonly stress, maim or kill I'm not sure how to draw it. What
is 'above' or 'below' any such line? Is a bird above or below a fish?
Is a fish above or below a reptile? What about a bat? So "mammals"
wouldn't be an organizational boundary either I'd think.

This gets to a really, really meaty question and I'm glad to ask you.

Why do we only 'fish' for fish?

I guess you've never been to a rodeo. Or a bull fight, or a cock fight, or a
dog fight. Heck, have you ever seen someone break a horse? That animal
looks pretty stressed. How do you view all the various "training" that pets
go through for our companionship?

Tim, why are you so singleminded about C&R? What do you hope to accomplish?

Danl

Bull Fighting | C&R
Cock Fighting | Dog Fighting
Rodeo Calf Roping
Horse Breaking

Excellent Comparisons. Remember you came up with the list, not me.

No, I have never been to a dog fight though I think I'd get pretty
upset at one.

I don't think breaking a horse should be on that same list if, for no
other reason, the "just for fun" clause is non-specific. Horses are
very useful and excellent companions.

Rodeo I'd say is questionable and somewhere in between, however.

Still, I struggle to think of any other animal we actually impale with
a hook in the anatomy somewhere and then drag to us, for no damned
good reason except it's really fun.

Can you?

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

On Mar 10, 6:37 pm, "Danl" danlfinn@*remove this*intergate.com
wrote:
Tim, why are you so singleminded about C&R? What do you hope to accomplish?

Because I think fishing should not reduce a wild animal to the status
of golf ball. Because I would like to heighten people's awareness of
the fact that the fish is a wonderful wild animal that is fighting for
its life every day and that we should never, ever take that for
granted. Because I would like to retain the heritage of the fisherman.
Because I like to eat trout when I'm camping. Because I think pure C&R
is an easy target for animal rights groups and that it probably should
be. The last bit I want to understand and learn about and explore as
much as possible because it is interesting and a worthy goal.

"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message
...

Still, I struggle to think of any other animal we actually impale with
a hook in the anatomy somewhere and then drag to us, for no damned
good reason except it's really fun.

Can you?

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

Tim, you're very, very obviously just splitting hairs. I do not think you're
being forthright in your side of this "debate". A rodeo is nowhere "in
between".

So, I'll leave you to your soapbox with this last question. For the sake of
your question, how different is fishing from horseback riding, assuming the
horseback riding is , as it almost always is, for fun rather than work? Hook
in mouth: bit in mouth. Drag to us: drag all over Hell's half acre. No
damned good reason for either except for our fun and amusement. BTW, I tend
not to drive nails into a fishes fins (horse's feet). The amount of time the
fish needs to be in my domain of influence for my pleasure is a few seconds
to a couple of minutes: the horse needs to give his entire lifetime whether
I ride him daily, monthly, or never.

Point is, we humans "stress" lots of animals, including other humans, in our
normal daily lives. It's not unusual. It's human. You, for whatever your
reasons might be, single out C&R for fish as something totally different.
It's not.

Hey, I tried to have a conversation. My mistake.

EOT

Take care,
Danl

On Mar 10, 7:34 pm, "Danl" danlfinn@*remove this*intergate.com
wrote:
"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message

...

Still, I struggle to think of any other animal we actually impale with
a hook in the anatomy somewhere and then drag to us, for no damned
good reason except it's really fun.

Can you?

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

Tim, you're very, very obviously just splitting hairs. I do not think you're
being forthright in your side of this "debate". A rodeo is nowhere "in
between".

So, I'll leave you to your soapbox with this last question. For the sake of
your question, how different is fishing from horseback riding, assuming the
horseback riding is , as it almost always is, for fun rather than work? Hook
in mouth: bit in mouth. Drag to us: drag all over Hell's half acre. No
damned good reason for either except for our fun and amusement. BTW, I tend
not to drive nails into a fishes fins (horse's feet). The amount of time the
fish needs to be in my domain of influence for my pleasure is a few seconds
to a couple of minutes: the horse needs to give his entire lifetime whether
I ride him daily, monthly, or never.

Point is, we humans "stress" lots of animals, including other humans, in our
normal daily lives. It's not unusual. It's human. You, for whatever your
reasons might be, single out C&R for fish as something totally different.
It's not.

Hey, I tried to have a conversation. My mistake.

EOT

Take care,
Danl

Hi Danl,

Not sure what you mean by your last sentence. The dialogue was just
getting started and I certainly made a specific and on-topic point.

You bring up horses. I know horses are used and rewarded in the form
of a pretty good life and a lot of love. Where they are not the horses
are confiscated and the owner on the 10 O:Clock news. They work hard
for their living and their nurture. Not unlike humans.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

On Mar 10, 7:34 pm, "Danl" danlfinn@*remove this*intergate.com
wrote:

[snip]
Tim, you're very, very obviously just splitting hairs. I do not think you're
being forthright in your side of this "debate". A rodeo is nowhere "in
between".

So Calf Roping is where? With horseback riding or with dog fighting?

Again, very interesting that you compared these things to C&R fishing.
I was thinking something that has a tremendous amount in common with
it, historical and social...fox hunting. Where does C&R compare to fox
hunting?

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:03:17 GMT, wrote:

Please keep flme wars to other venues and other groups
Even if it is true and if it is about yourself

Take a pill, smoke a joint, shoot-up and call me in the morning.

Dave aka Doctor to the Junkies

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:52:17 -0700 (PDT), Halfordian Golfer
wrote:

You bring up horses. I know horses are used and rewarded in the form
of a pretty good life and a lot of love. Where they are not the horses
are confiscated and the owner on the 10 O:Clock news. They work hard
for their living and their nurture. Not unlike humans.

He brought up horses and what we do to them. There is little
difference what we do to a horse for the sake of riding them than we
do catching a fish. Bridle/bit easily equates to hook - nails in the
hooves has no equal in the fish world, and like Dan'l says, we
domesticate the horse and ride him all the time for our *pleasure*.
It must suck to be a horse compared to a brook trout. You live in
horse country; how's come you aren't out there complaining about all
them cowpokes poking horses? Eh?

Give up fishing, Tim. It is your only solution.

Dave

Please cofine your remarks to stay on topic

In case you forgot

fish and fishing

or you will be banned to ROFF where you were spawned from

Fred