Catch and Release Hurts our Quality of Life

On Mar 13, 5:21 pm, Charlie Choc
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:04:09 -0700 (PDT), Halfordian Golfer
wrote:

By the way, in order to survive, this is almost exactly how the
indiginous people survived.

Indigenous people stampeded herds off cliffs, took the tasty bits, and left the
rest to rot. They were few and we are many; we can't apply the same 'ethics'
today, there isn't enough game.
--
Charlie...http://www.chocphoto.com

The voice of reason. That is precisely it. Precisely why I can catch
exactly 4 a day and have 8 in the cooler in Colorado. Why I can only
fish with a single hook attached to a line. Why I need to keep my rod
in my possession. Why I can only set trot lines out and,
interestingly, why there are no minimum size, bag or posession limits
on northern pike in Colorado.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message
...

JT,

I answered your question directly. Several times. I hate to say this
JT, but this *specific* question is usually one of the 1st or 2nd
questions that come up every time in this debate. I don't know how
else to answer you. All fishermen try really hard to minimize
incidental loss while hunting or fishing. It happens. A friend of mine
was hunting Elk alone and he shot a cow elk and wounded it. He was
tracking it, saw it and shot it. It was then that he realized he had
killed a second elk. This is a tough guy who was distraught about it.
Once as kid I shot a sparrow hawk while dove hunting. Anyone with a
shred of outdoors ethics is upset by this, but it happens and is
unavoidable.

And if I were starving, had a snowmobile and a club. Yes.

Halfordian Golfer

You still haven't answered my direct question because you know I'm right...
Very well...

BTW, I'm a hunter too... My family has hunted a certain area for years, we
noticed the herds were diminishing. Guess what we did? We quit hunting the
area for a few years to let the population recover. We didn't continue
taking animals in an area just because the law said we could.

Get a clue...

EOT,
JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

On Mar 14, 10:27 am, "JT" wrote:
"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message

...





JT,

I answered your question directly. Several times. I hate to say this
JT, but this *specific* question is usually one of the 1st or 2nd
questions that come up every time in this debate. I don't know how
else to answer you. All fishermen try really hard to minimize
incidental loss while hunting or fishing. It happens. A friend of mine
was hunting Elk alone and he shot a cow elk and wounded it. He was
tracking it, saw it and shot it. It was then that he realized he had
killed a second elk. This is a tough guy who was distraught about it.
Once as kid I shot a sparrow hawk while dove hunting. Anyone with a
shred of outdoors ethics is upset by this, but it happens and is
unavoidable.

And if I were starving, had a snowmobile and a club. Yes.

Halfordian Golfer

You still haven't answered my direct question because you know I'm right...
Very well...

BTW, I'm a hunter too... My family has hunted a certain area for years, we
noticed the herds were diminishing. Guess what we did? We quit hunting the
area for a few years to let the population recover. We didn't continue
taking animals in an area just because the law said we could.

Get a clue...

EOT,
JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

Your question is the most elementary one that is dismissed within 10
minutes of the conversation. Not sure why you hang on to it and not
sure why you keep saying I don't answer your question when I have over
and over and over.

Answer: It is important and needs to be minimized and the fish handled
with care and respect but it can't be helped anymore than we can
prevent killing prairie dogs when we plow the fields to grow lettuce.

THAT is my direct and complete answer. At my count something like the
7th time.

Pure C&R Stresses, maims and kills fish, purely for sport. That much
is completely, incontravertably, inarguably, wholly true. Most people
at least acknowledge that bit, it is the fact that so many FF-ers
simply don't get that and turn a rosed colored pastoral lens towards
the issue, ostensibly because it filters out the blood. At least I
accept this truth instead of pretending it does not exist.

TBone

On Mar 14, 10:27 am, "JT" wrote:

Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.


Catch and release is the false profit of the fishing industry and has
no biological imperative. Any fishery that can not withstand some
harvest, including the incidental mortality from catch and released,
should be closed.

TBone

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

Your question is the most elementary one that is dismissed within 10
minutes of the conversation. Not sure why you hang on to it and not
sure why you keep saying I don't answer your question when I have over
and over and over.


Tim this is as a friend. "No one" wants to "play with you" anymore
because when people ask you a question, you DON'T answer the question
they ask.

You may think you do:

but you answer the question you want to answer, not the specific
question that is asked
or you answer like a politician who is asked a question he/she does want
to answer and deflects it off on a tangent
or you ignore the question because you don't have a good answer
or.........


If you want people to keep conversing with you, especially on this topic
that is so emotional for you, you need to DISCUSS it with people not
preach to them. That means you need to READ what people write and think
about what they are asking and respond to what THEY are asking/saying
and not just use it as a launching point to preach "the cause."

FWIW

Willi

"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message
...
JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

Your question is the most elementary one that is dismissed within 10
minutes of the conversation. Not sure why you hang on to it and not
sure why you keep saying I don't answer your question when I have over
and over and over.

No you didn't and you know it....

JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

On Mar 17, 8:17 am, "JT" wrote:
"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message

...

JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

Your question is the most elementary one that is dismissed within 10
minutes of the conversation. Not sure why you hang on to it and not
sure why you keep saying I don't answer your question when I have over
and over and over.

No you didn't and you know it....

JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

JT do you or Willi have anything more to add to this thread?
Specifically anything about pure C&R fishermen doing anything to
prevent toxicity in the form of mercury and others in our fisheries?

For the record:
1) JT I answered your question specifically. Multiple times. In the
last one I earmarked it as "Answer". As well, if you honestly care
about the answer and aren't just "goading" you can search the archives
where I have addressed this, I'd suggest 30-100 times in the past
decade. Which part of my answer did not address your question
exactly?

2) Willi I asked you to post URL's to the specific management balance
plan you mentioned (so that I know what specifically you are asking in
the extreme oversimplification you have provided). You have not. My
position is that culling can benefit the fishery and take the place of
predation where it has been minimized and that nature provides a
bounty of harvest. This is at the basis of all sound fisheries
management, the math of which you and I never have a hope of
understanding, the pond equation and the study I cite is the best one
I know. The current management policies of the CDOW plus the fact that
pure C&R remains incredibly rare and only in places where it has been
established as a social regulation.

Halfordian Golfer

On Mar 15, 9:22 am, Willi wrote:

Tim this is as a friend. "No one" wants to "play with you" anymore
because when people ask you a question, you DON'T answer the question
they ask.
[snip]

Why not ask the CDOW the exact (incredibly nebulous) question you
asked me and post the response?

That's the kind of thing I do to support a thread and I'd really like
to see you post the unadulterated response back to this group because
it will be within a sentence or two of what I've already told you.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 8:17 am, "JT" wrote:
"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message

...

JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

Your question is the most elementary one that is dismissed within 10
minutes of the conversation. Not sure why you hang on to it and not
sure why you keep saying I don't answer your question when I have over
and over and over.

No you didn't and you know it....

JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

JT do you or Willi have anything more to add to this thread?
Specifically anything about pure C&R fishermen doing anything to
prevent toxicity in the form of mercury and others in our fisheries?

For the record:
1) JT I answered your question specifically. Multiple times. In the
last one I earmarked it as "Answer". As well, if you honestly care
about the answer and aren't just "goading" you can search the archives
where I have addressed this, I'd suggest 30-100 times in the past
decade. Which part of my answer did not address your question
exactly?


You know damn well you didn't answer my direct question.

I'm done, EOT for me... This thread over the last two plus weeks have
accomplished absolutely nothing.

Move along,
JT

On Mar 17, 10:46 am, "JT" wrote:
"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message

...



On Mar 17, 8:17 am, "JT" wrote:
"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message

...

JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

Your question is the most elementary one that is dismissed within 10
minutes of the conversation. Not sure why you hang on to it and not
sure why you keep saying I don't answer your question when I have over
and over and over.

No you didn't and you know it....

JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

JT do you or Willi have anything more to add to this thread?
Specifically anything about pure C&R fishermen doing anything to
prevent toxicity in the form of mercury and others in our fisheries?

For the record:
1) JT I answered your question specifically. Multiple times. In the
last one I earmarked it as "Answer". As well, if you honestly care
about the answer and aren't just "goading" you can search the archives
where I have addressed this, I'd suggest 30-100 times in the past
decade. Which part of my answer did not address your question
exactly?

You know damn well you didn't answer my direct question.

I'm done, EOT for me... This thread over the last two plus weeks have
accomplished absolutely nothing.

Move along,
JT

JT,

You keep claiming I don't answer this question (which looks like a
statement and a question):

It's okay to catch and release several fish before you catch a fish
that meets a slot limit? What about the incident mortality in all the
fish you release before catching a keeper!?

Here is my answer, again, highly pared down to its essence.

Part I. It's okay to catch and release several fish before you catch a
fish that meets a slot limit?

If this is question than: Yes. If it's a statement than I agree with
you.

Part II. What about the incident mortality in all the fish you release
before catching a keeper!?

Unfortunate but unavoidable. Happens all the time in nature.

Halfordian Golfer