Fly Tie-ers

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:51:27 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:05:31 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
...
Sprattoo, I was wondering if/when anyone actually read the article. I
still can't figure out how my "signature" became such a hot topic....
Especially since the sig dosen't mention any particular country of
origin. ...
LOL !! The old "Well, who says I'm talking about Latinos ?" dodge.
That's the same excuse the other anonymous bigot tried to trot out.
Is there some sort of Anonymous Bigots Handbook you guys consult ?

Hey Ken,
The only people that I am "bigoted" against are those with closed
minds. I have ZERO problem with folks coming to this great country of
ours, from anyplace in the world, as long as they do it as my
ancestors did - Legally. If the government were to change the laws
that made it legal for anyone that manages to get inside our borders
to stay here, then I would have no problem. But until that time,
ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL .... no different than crack dealers or the guy
that wants to fish the Gallatin or Madison with ANFO, Semtex charges
or a gill-net.

There is a *huge* difference between undocumented workers
who are encouraged by unscrupulous Americans to come here
and harvest our crops, build our homes, work in our canning
factories

Um, Ken, unless your lifestyle has changed _considerably_ in the last,
oh, few hours or so, much of your consumption encourages "undocumented
workers" (who, by-the-by, are mostly "Americans," too...) to come to the
US.

and a crack dealer.

Depends on what you are using for comparison. If it's simply being
guilty of knowingly breaking the law, then nope, there's no difference
whatsoever.

And you and I both know that the undocumented workers you're
talking about are Hispanic.

That may be what he is talking about, but you need to look up what
"Hispanic" means. For example, I'm "Hispanic" and yet, AFAIK, I stand
absolutely no chance of being an "undocumented worker" anywhere in the
Americas or Europe...

That's why your .sig is offensive.
If you want to post offensive slogans you should come up
with one that's a slur against the people who knowingly hire
undocumented workers.

Howsabout "Budweiser drinkers suck worse than the beer" or "Those who
drink amusing little California wines aren't so amusing..." See, Pogo,
when it comes to encouraging "undocu..." **** it, illegal aliens, most
US citizen-consumers are the ultimate source of encouragement of their
coming to the US. And here's the thing - there's nothing wrong with
that...

Until then you're just another anonymous
bigot.

HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
...
See, Pogo,
when it comes to encouraging "undocu..." **** it, illegal aliens, most
US citizen-consumers are the ultimate source of encouragement of their
coming to the US. And here's the thing - there's nothing wrong with
that...

Spoken like a guy who wouldn't mind having a few off-the-books
employees himself. ;-)

So do you consider yourself the equivalent of a crack dealer ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:32:13 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
...
See, Pogo,
when it comes to encouraging "undocu..." **** it, illegal aliens, most
US citizen-consumers are the ultimate source of encouragement of their
coming to the US. And here's the thing - there's nothing wrong with
that...

Spoken like a guy who wouldn't mind having a few off-the-books
employees himself. ;-)

I wouldn't mind it in the least. That doesn't mean or equate to my
wishing to be able to exploit them, though.

So do you consider yourself the equivalent of a crack dealer ?

If I hire them, and the standard of comparison is simply "breaking the
law," yes, because there is nothing even debatable in such a scenario.
Again, that doesn't mean I would consider myself the full equivalent of
a crack dealer, nor does it mean that _I_ consider them "equal" crimes.

HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Spoken like a guy who wouldn't mind having a few off-the-books
employees himself. ;-)

I wouldn't mind it in the least. That doesn't mean or equate to my
wishing to be able to exploit them, though.

Well that just doesn't make any sense. What kind of dimbulb
businessman would run the risk of large fines and possible
jail time unless he was planning to profit from a cheap labor
pool ? If you're *not* planning to exploit your illegals
you'd have to be an idiot to hire them in the first place.
And you're no idiot.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:36:15 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Spoken like a guy who wouldn't mind having a few off-the-books
employees himself. ;-)

I wouldn't mind it in the least. That doesn't mean or equate to my
wishing to be able to exploit them, though.

Well that just doesn't make any sense. What kind of dimbulb
businessman would run the risk of large fines and possible
jail time unless he was planning to profit from a cheap labor
pool ?

You didn't ask whether I thought it prudent business to do so, only if I
wouldn't mind having a few "off-the-books" employees. Them being
illegal aliens is not material. Rather than pay an employee X USD, plus
all of the assorted costs, few of which practically benefit employee or
employer, it be cheaper to pay that employee - Mexican, US citizens, or
Norwegians - a flat, simple cash wage of X + 20% and be done with it.

If you're *not* planning to exploit your illegals
you'd have to be an idiot to hire them in the first place.

Well, in my observations, most illegals want to work, do work, and work
hard. Therefore, I'd rather have illegals - not because they are
illegals, but because they are hard workers who _want_ to work, treat
and pay them fairly, have them stick around and continue to do good work
- you know, sorta like normal human beings...

Exploiting them or any other employee, aside from the overall flat-out
wrongness of it, isn't nearly as good business as some might think.

And you're no idiot.

Well, I'll leave that misjudgment to my critics...I have no doubt
they'll get it wrong...

TC,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
... What kind of dimbulb
businessman would run the risk of large fines and possible
jail time unless he was planning to profit from a cheap labor
pool ?

You didn't ask whether I thought it prudent business to do so, only if I
wouldn't mind having a few "off-the-books" employees. Them being
illegal aliens is not material. Rather than pay an employee X USD, plus
all of the assorted costs, few of which practically benefit employee or
employer, it be cheaper to pay that employee - Mexican, US citizens, or
Norwegians - a flat, simple cash wage of X + 20% and be done with it.

Why do you hate America so much ?

If you're *not* planning to exploit your illegals
you'd have to be an idiot to hire them in the first place.

Well, in my observations, most illegals want to work, do work, and work
hard. Therefore, I'd rather have illegals - not because they are
illegals, but because they are hard workers who _want_ to work, treat
and pay them fairly, have them stick around and continue to do good work
- you know, sorta like normal human beings...

Uh huh. I get the impression that your notions, and those
of the other chiselers who would knowingly hire illegals,
about "treat and pay them fairly" aren't exactly consistent
with either our labor laws or common human decency.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Well someone has to do the jobs we don't want and the lazy american kids
no longer work when they turn 15 or 16 they now play video games, don't
leave the house and don't get any sort of job until they are out of
college, I am a proud American, but it is easy to see why other
countries think we are lazy and spoiled, myself included. By the way
when did all this politicly correct nonsense happen, at least we still
speak our minds here in North Jersey :dizzy:
/IMG


--
Dennis
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On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:43:19 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
... What kind of dimbulb
businessman would run the risk of large fines and possible
jail time unless he was planning to profit from a cheap labor
pool ?

You didn't ask whether I thought it prudent business to do so, only if I
wouldn't mind having a few "off-the-books" employees. Them being
illegal aliens is not material. Rather than pay an employee X USD, plus
all of the assorted costs, few of which practically benefit employee or
employer, it be cheaper to pay that employee - Mexican, US citizens, or
Norwegians - a flat, simple cash wage of X + 20% and be done with it.

Why do you hate America so much ?

If you're *not* planning to exploit your illegals
you'd have to be an idiot to hire them in the first place.

Well, in my observations, most illegals want to work, do work, and work
hard. Therefore, I'd rather have illegals - not because they are
illegals, but because they are hard workers who _want_ to work, treat
and pay them fairly, have them stick around and continue to do good work
- you know, sorta like normal human beings...

Uh huh. I get the impression that your notions, and those
of the other chiselers who would knowingly hire illegals,
about "treat and pay them fairly" aren't exactly consistent
with either our labor laws or common human decency.

I can't and won't speak for anyone and everyone who might hire, or has
hired, illegal workers. I'd agree that in any system where exploitation
of others is possible, be it the US or anywhere else, some will exploit
others. Heck, I'd exploit weakness in an equal - IOW, if you and I were
both business owners in competition and I could exploit a weakness of
yours, I'd do it (assuming it was legal and I felt it ethical). But for
me, exploiting (using solely the negative meaning/connotation of
"exploit") employees of any status simply isn't good business - again,
aside from the pure "wrongness" of it. IAC, I didn't offer opinions on
what others might do, I only stated my thoughts on what I'd want/do and
my reasons, directly addressing your asking me what _I'd_ wish to do.

TC,
R

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:32:13 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
...
See, Pogo,
when it comes to encouraging "undocu..." **** it, illegal aliens, most
US citizen-consumers are the ultimate source of encouragement of their
coming to the US. And here's the thing - there's nothing wrong with
that...

Spoken like a guy who wouldn't mind having a few off-the-books
employees himself. ;-)

I wouldn't mind it in the least. That doesn't mean or equate to my
wishing to be able to exploit them, though.

So do you consider yourself the equivalent of a crack dealer ?

If I hire them, and the standard of comparison is simply "breaking the
law," yes, because there is nothing even debatable in such a scenario.
Again, that doesn't mean I would consider myself the full equivalent of
a crack dealer, nor does it mean that _I_ consider them "equal" crimes.

To the casual observer, it must appear sad and tedious that so many with so
little to say can go on at such great length about nothing in particular
without contributing anything at all to an understanding or appreciation of
anything imaginable......and do it all so poorly.

That's because the casual observer doesn't know much about the value.....or
the limitations.....of free entertainment.

Wolfgang
who would gladly part with a shiny new nickel for a moment's peek into the
workings of "minds" like these.

On Mar 20, 2:37 pm, "Wolfgang" wrote:

Wolfgang
who would gladly part with a shiny new nickel for a moment's peek into the
workings of "minds" like these.

So chuck five cents into the next cesspit.

MC