I need help.

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

On Apr 22, 8:31 am, Conan The Librarian wrote:

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

On Apr 21, 8:36 pm, tim wrote:

The thing that I hate is I see bait guys with a stringer full of fish

2nd year of fishing and you're already dissing 10,000 years of angling
for subsistence? Where did you learn this crap?

So when was the last time you fished "for subsistence"?


I would, respectfully, suggest golf.

I'm thinking you should take your own advice. I don't see how you
can stand the guilt.

Chuck Vance (a water hazard runs through it)


Dude starts fishing, hasn't even caught a fish, and is already
bitching about people that are catching and keeping fish legally.

First of all, how do you know they caught and kept them *legally*?

Secondly, I took his comments to mean, "Damn, they were catching
them on bait but I can't get a hit on flies. I hate that."

Of course, given your obession, I can see how you read his comments
as hatred of the first degree. Eye of the beholder, projection, and all
that.

[snippety doo dah day]

1) Angling has a rich and long tradition. It is, literally, hunting
for fish. Only in the last 20-30 years has angling taken on purely
sporting ramifications.

Yeah, I know what you mean. How I long for the days when you could
keep stringers of 50-60 fish ("for subsistence") without guilt.

In the days before angling became wet-golf
fishing for biological golf balls, anyone who fished was considered a
brother of the angle. We'd say: "Guy fishes, must be a good guy". We
respected the sport and especially the wild animal we were killing in
our pursuit. We understood what wild meant (ask LaCourse, he just got
a refresher) and we would go out of our way to hike around a brother
who was fishing in a spot as to not ruin his fishing. Fishing in the
last 30 years has degraded in to a competitive pursuit, the very last
thing we needed it to become.

And you don't think the guys we see in pictures showing off their
stringers of fish were competitive?

Setting aside your pathological guilt complex for the moment, your
whole "argument" reads like little more than "back in the good ole days,
men were men blah, blah, blah" with a slightly different twist.

What I find so odd is that the majority of the folks reading this
*do* care and respect the fish they pursue. And they do not do it
competitively. Yet you feel compelled to broad brush everyone who
practices C'n'R as some sort of Johnny Come Lately Orvis pimp.

It says more about you than anyone you're ostensibly targeting with
your comments.

Seriously: Grasshopper - catch a grasshopper and than catch a fish,
come back and we will talk.

Seriously, I ask you again: When was the last time you fished for
subsistence?


Chuck Vance

On 2008-04-22, Conan The Librarian wrote:

Seriously, I ask you again: When was the last time you fished for
subsistence?

I'd starve to death.

OTOH, it's the only reason I fish. Screw a buncha catch and release. If I
catch a legal fish, I'm gonna eat it. I don't quite understand the romantic
notion of fishing. What? A 200lb man with $500 worth of hardware lands a
2lb fish. Big whoop. To some, I guess. If that's their thing, so be it.

I have nothing against CnR. If most folks didn't do it, I have no doubt
most streams would be fished out in no time. I've seen it happen. Last time
I went fishing, at a popular camping destination that was once remote and
rarely crowded, the fishermen were shoulder to shoulder. Now, with RV
parking, reservations, etc, the place is so crowded the fish have to be
restocked ever morning. I caught my two fish (6 limit) in about 3 mins and
left. It was depressing.

Recently, I stopped a local fishing guide who was returning from scouting
the river below my place. We talked a bit, me asking if the fish were
biting, etc. I happened to mention my taking up fly fishing so I could
catch a few trout to eat. She got all serious and somewhat indignant that
anyone would actually keep a fish and not release it and went into a long
diatribe about how the fish were not infinite, yada yada. I said I'd heard
this river was loaded with fish and the fishing pressure was light. She
said that was the case a couple years ago. Now, fishing pressure was heavy
and CnR was the only solution. I didn't say anything, but thought it rather
funny and a bit hipocritical, as her boss, who owns three fishing shops, is
out stumping up and down the front range at TU seminars to get people to
drive hundreds of miles to this river so she can charge $300 day to guide
them. Fishing pressure, indeed.

So far, the fish, here, have nothing to fear from me.

nb

"notbob" wrote in message
.. .
On 2008-04-22, Conan The Librarian wrote:

Seriously, I ask you again: When was the last time you fished for
subsistence?

I'd starve to death.

OTOH, it's the only reason I fish. Screw a buncha catch and release. If
I
catch a legal fish, I'm gonna eat it. I don't quite understand the
romantic
notion of fishing. What? A 200lb man with $500 worth of hardware lands a
2lb fish. Big whoop. To some, I guess. If that's their thing, so be it.

I have nothing against CnR. If most folks didn't do it, I have no doubt
most streams would be fished out in no time. I've seen it happen. Last
time
I went fishing, at a popular camping destination that was once remote and
rarely crowded, the fishermen were shoulder to shoulder. Now, with RV
parking, reservations, etc, the place is so crowded the fish have to be
restocked ever morning. I caught my two fish (6 limit) in about 3 mins
and
left. It was depressing.

Recently, I stopped a local fishing guide who was returning from scouting
the river below my place. We talked a bit, me asking if the fish were
biting, etc. I happened to mention my taking up fly fishing so I could
catch a few trout to eat. She got all serious and somewhat indignant that
anyone would actually keep a fish and not release it and went into a long
diatribe about how the fish were not infinite, yada yada. I said I'd
heard
this river was loaded with fish and the fishing pressure was light. She
said that was the case a couple years ago. Now, fishing pressure was
heavy
and CnR was the only solution. I didn't say anything, but thought it
rather
funny and a bit hipocritical, as her boss, who owns three fishing shops,
is
out stumping up and down the front range at TU seminars to get people to
drive hundreds of miles to this river so she can charge $300 day to guide
them. Fishing pressure, indeed.

From our "Fresh Point of View on a Hot New Topic" desk.

So far, the fish, here, have nothing to fear from me.

Nor philosophers.

Wolfgang

I said I'd heard
this river was loaded with fish and the fishing pressure was light. She
said that was the case a couple years ago. Now, fishing pressure was heavy
and CnR was the only solution. I didn't say anything, but thought it rather
funny and a bit hipocritical, as her boss, who owns three fishing shops, is
out stumping up and down the front range at TU seminars to get people to
drive hundreds of miles to this river so she can charge $300 day to guide
them. Fishing pressure, indeed.

Finally. Someone who gets it.

Tim - seriously if you want to learn how to flyfish start with bait
and never, ever, let anyone tell you or start believing that
flyfishing is 'superior' to other kinds of fishing. It's not. It's
just a different way to get your 'bait' in front of the fish. If you
have no intention of ever killing a fish to eat I'd suggest not even
taking it up. As soon as you realize this is a blood sport that
involves stressing, maiming and killing a wild animal purely for sport
the better. The flyfishing guys'll sugar coat it.

--
TBone
A cash flow runs through it.

On 2008-04-22, Halfordian Golfer wrote:

Tim -

(Tim?)

A cash flow runs through it.

LOL

notbob wrote:

On 2008-04-22, Conan The Librarian wrote:

Seriously, I ask you again: When was the last time you fished for
subsistence?

I'd starve to death.

OTOH, it's the only reason I fish. Screw a buncha catch and release. If I
catch a legal fish, I'm gonna eat it.

I daresay no one reading these posts actually fishes for
subsistence. You may keep fish you catch to eat, but you don't subsist
on fishing.

If you did, you'd choose a more efficient method than flyfishing.

I don't quite understand the romantic
notion of fishing. What? A 200lb man with $500 worth of hardware lands a
2lb fish. Big whoop. To some, I guess. If that's their thing, so be it.

Why do you flyfish then?

I have nothing against CnR.

And I have nothing against people keeping their legal limit. I
choose not to on most waters I fish. Big whoop. It's my choice, and it
happens to be the way I prefer it.

Despite Tim's constant protestations, I'd venture a guess that most
ROFFians attitudes are similar. We don't have problems with areas that
are C'n'R; if we choose to fish them we follow the rules. But it's not
an all or nothing situation for us like it is for Tim. We are
comfortable in how we approach the sport. Tim isn't, therefore he's
trying to drag everyone else down to his level.

Recently, I stopped a local fishing guide who was returning from scouting
the river below my place. We talked a bit, me asking if the fish were
biting, etc. I happened to mention my taking up fly fishing so I could
catch a few trout to eat. She got all serious and somewhat indignant that
anyone would actually keep a fish and not release it and went into a long
diatribe about how the fish were not infinite, yada yada. I said I'd heard
this river was loaded with fish and the fishing pressure was light. She
said that was the case a couple years ago. Now, fishing pressure was heavy
and CnR was the only solution. I didn't say anything, but thought it rather
funny and a bit hipocritical, as her boss, who owns three fishing shops, is
out stumping up and down the front range at TU seminars to get people to
drive hundreds of miles to this river so she can charge $300 day to guide
them. Fishing pressure, indeed.

Hypocrites are hypocrites. Whether they happen to be flyfishermen,
baitfishermen, catch and kill, catch and release is immaterial to that fact.


Chuck Vance

On Apr 22, 12:43 pm, Conan The Librarian wrote:
notbob wrote:
On 2008-04-22, Conan The Librarian wrote:

Seriously, I ask you again: When was the last time you fished for
subsistence?

I'd starve to death.

OTOH, it's the only reason I fish. Screw a buncha catch and release. If I
catch a legal fish, I'm gonna eat it.

I daresay no one reading these posts actually fishes for
subsistence. You may keep fish you catch to eat, but you don't subsist
on fishing.

If you did, you'd choose a more efficient method than flyfishing.

I don't quite understand the romantic
notion of fishing. What? A 200lb man with $500 worth of hardware lands a
2lb fish. Big whoop. To some, I guess. If that's their thing, so be it.

Why do you flyfish then?

I have nothing against CnR.

And I have nothing against people keeping their legal limit. I
choose not to on most waters I fish. Big whoop. It's my choice, and it
happens to be the way I prefer it.

Despite Tim's constant protestations, I'd venture a guess that most
ROFFians attitudes are similar. We don't have problems with areas that
are C'n'R; if we choose to fish them we follow the rules. But it's not
an all or nothing situation for us like it is for Tim. We are
comfortable in how we approach the sport. Tim isn't, therefore he's
trying to drag everyone else down to his level.

Recently, I stopped a local fishing guide who was returning from scouting
the river below my place. We talked a bit, me asking if the fish were
biting, etc. I happened to mention my taking up fly fishing so I could
catch a few trout to eat. She got all serious and somewhat indignant that
anyone would actually keep a fish and not release it and went into a long
diatribe about how the fish were not infinite, yada yada. I said I'd heard
this river was loaded with fish and the fishing pressure was light. She
said that was the case a couple years ago. Now, fishing pressure was heavy
and CnR was the only solution. I didn't say anything, but thought it rather
funny and a bit hipocritical, as her boss, who owns three fishing shops, is
out stumping up and down the front range at TU seminars to get people to
drive hundreds of miles to this river so she can charge $300 day to guide
them. Fishing pressure, indeed.

Hypocrites are hypocrites. Whether they happen to be flyfishermen,
baitfishermen, catch and kill, catch and release is immaterial to that fact.

Chuck Vance

Sorry but you're wrong. Read just about every other post here or pick
up any issue of R&R or Flyfishing magazine. The vast majority of
flyfishermen that I see and hear (keep in mind that I lived in the #1
flyfishing city in the world for more than a decade that gave me this
perspective, had a driftboat and the whole catastrophe) bash
relentlessly other anglers and angling techniques. I'm just here to
keep it real and to stick up for the rights of humans to exist on the
food chain and to keep the legacy of angling for food around for my
children's children. So, someone bashes bait fisherman, I'll be right
there. Someone says a negative word to me about having a fish on a
stringer or a stick to my face and I will press charges.

TBone

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

Sorry but you're wrong. Read just about every other post here or pick
up any issue of R&R or Flyfishing magazine. The vast majority of
flyfishermen that I see and hear (keep in mind that I lived in the #1
flyfishing city in the world for more than a decade that gave me this
perspective, had a driftboat and the whole catastrophe) bash
relentlessly other anglers and angling techniques.

Feel free to show us examples of "about every other post" that
"bash[es] relentlessly other anglers and angling techniques".

I'll wait with "baited" breath.

FWIW, the vast majority of folks I know who "bash" other techniques
"bash" poachers, plain and simple.

I'm just here to
keep it real

Tim, no offense, but you don't have the slightest sense of what's
real.

Someone says a negative word to me about having a fish on a
stringer or a stick to my face and I will press charges.

And I suppose this is another instance of you "keeping it real".


Chuck Vance (the twilight zone runs through it)

On Apr 22, 1:09 pm, Conan The Librarian wrote:
Halfordian Golfer wrote:
Sorry but you're wrong. Read just about every other post here or pick
up any issue of R&R or Flyfishing magazine. The vast majority of
flyfishermen that I see and hear (keep in mind that I lived in the #1
flyfishing city in the world for more than a decade that gave me this
perspective, had a driftboat and the whole catastrophe) bash
relentlessly other anglers and angling techniques.

Feel free to show us examples of "about every other post" that
"bash[es] relentlessly other anglers and angling techniques".

I'll wait with "baited" breath.

FWIW, the vast majority of folks I know who "bash" other techniques
"bash" poachers, plain and simple.

I'm just here to
keep it real

Tim, no offense, but you don't have the slightest sense of what's
real.

Someone says a negative word to me about having a fish on a
stringer or a stick to my face and I will press charges.

And I suppose this is another instance of you "keeping it real".

Chuck Vance (the twilight zone runs through it)

Chuck - Go bonk a brown trout at high noon in the bowl below Reudi and
call me in the morning.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

Chuck - Go bonk a brown trout at high noon in the bowl below Reudi and
call me in the morning.

Amazing. The longest continuous troll in the history of roff
persists practically unabated.

Credit where credit is due, Tim Walker is the most persistent,
dogged, tireless and pertinacious troll ever to start the same
old bull**** for the thousandth time on roff.

If nothing else, (and there is nothing else), the guy has
stick-to-itiveness.

--
Ken Fortenberry