Dual nymphs

On Fri, 2 May 2008 17:46:13 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:

in water of
unknown depth, thus apparently necessitating using two of them in the
first place?

Why do you say water of unknown depth? Just about every water I fish
I know how deep it is. And, the last person I heard criticize a
strike indicator was George Gehrke, and he did so only because he
didn't sell them. Some of the best nymphers *in the United States*
use multi-fly rigs (where legal) and strike indicators. If I am high
sticking it, I do not use an indicator. But that is not the only way
to nymph. If I am going up and across (very effective) I use a strike
indicator; it makes mending easier and you can better control the
depth of the fly.

Nothing wrong with multi-fly rigs or strike indicators.

Dave

On May 3, 3:05 am, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Fri, 2 May 2008 17:46:13 -0700 (PDT), Mike

wrote:
in water of
unknown depth, thus apparently necessitating using two of them in the
first place?

Why do you say water of unknown depth? Just about every water I fish
I know how deep it is. And, the last person I heard criticize a
strike indicator was George Gehrke, and he did so only because he
didn't sell them. Some of the best nymphers *in the United States*
use multi-fly rigs (where legal) and strike indicators. If I am high
sticking it, I do not use an indicator. But that is not the only way
to nymph. If I am going up and across (very effective) I use a strike
indicator; it makes mending easier and you can better control the
depth of the fly.

Nothing wrong with multi-fly rigs or strike indicators.

Dave

Because that was a reason given for using them;

QUOTE

When you've got two flies separated by 24" or so, there's a greater
likelihood that at least one of them will be in the right place at the
right time. Even for those who have experience, depth variations in
the
streams are easier to deal with when you have two nymphs.

UNQUOTE

I have nothing at all against multi-fly rigs, or indicators either. I
often use them myself.

The main point here is, that a beginner was asking the best way to use
a dual nymph rig, and in my opinion, the most sensible answer to that
question from a beginner is "not at all".

I think he would be better advised to use a single nymph with an
indicator. Once he gains some experience with that, he can then use
multi fly rigs if he wishes, but it is usually folly to start with
them.

Some obviously disagree. Good. No problem.

The gentleman concerned will no doubt make his own mind up about it
anyway.

MC

Mike wrote in news:50fd594b-233d-4283-bda7-
:

QUOTE

When you've got two flies separated by 24" or so, there's a greater
likelihood that at least one of them will be in the right place at the
right time. Even for those who have experience, depth variations in
the
streams are easier to deal with when you have two nymphs.

UNQUOTE


Mike. I'm well aware that Germans mandate a maximum of 2" of depth
variation on their stream bottoms, but that's not the way it is in the US.
I don't believe I mentioned strike indicators at all. They can be very
useful to determine if you're getting a dead drift or not. One other trick
for nymphing is that lighter tippets mean less profile for the current to
push your rig around.

Obviously, if one fly in a two nymph rig is in the perfect place, the other
fly is not. The probability of one fly being in the right place, though,
is still better.

Nymphing can be tough and hard work, especially if your doing it right. I
think many folks don't appreciate the three-dimensionality of the problem.
In any case, every little bit helps. I find that using a second fly
increases my catch rate without increasing my rate of foul hooking, and
that's what I'll tell anyone who asks about it.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On May 3, 3:29 am, Scott Seidman wrote:

Mike. I'm well aware that Germans mandate a maximum of 2" of depth
variation on their stream bottoms, but that's not the way it is in the US.
I don't believe I mentioned strike indicators at all. They can be very
useful to determine if you're getting a dead drift or not. One other trick
for nymphing is that lighter tippets mean less profile for the current to
push your rig around.

Obviously, if one fly in a two nymph rig is in the perfect place, the other
fly is not. The probability of one fly being in the right place, though,
is still better.

Nymphing can be tough and hard work, especially if your doing it right. I
think many folks don't appreciate the three-dimensionality of the problem.
In any case, every little bit helps. I find that using a second fly
increases my catch rate without increasing my rate of foul hooking, and
that's what I'll tell anyone who asks about it.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Well, if you are well aware of what Germans mandate, there is not much
point in any further discussion is there?

Seems a lot of you folks are well aware of almost everything,
excepting common sense, manners, and civil behaviour.

MC

On Fri, 2 May 2008 18:37:16 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:

Seems a lot of you folks are well aware of almost everything,
excepting common sense, manners, and civil behaviour.

Who is stirring the **** pot now, Mike. Clue: It ain't Scott.

Mike wrote:


I have nothing at all against multi-fly rigs, or indicators either. I
often use them myself.

The main point here is, that a beginner was asking the best way to use
a dual nymph rig, and in my opinion, the most sensible answer to that
question from a beginner is "not at all".

I think he would be better advised to use a single nymph with an
indicator. Once he gains some experience with that, he can then use
multi fly rigs if he wishes, but it is usually folly to start with
them.

Some obviously disagree. Good. No problem.

The gentleman concerned will no doubt make his own mind up about it
anyway.

MC

I am with Mike on the multi-fly rigs for beginners. I think it is better
for a beginner to use a single nymph and learn to get good drifts,
detect strikes, get good hook ups, and cast weighted nymphs properly
rather than spending all their time untangling flies and becoming
frustrated.

Tim Lysyk

On 2008-05-06, Tim Lysyk wrote:

I am with Mike on the multi-fly rigs for beginners. I think it is better
for a beginner to use a single nymph and learn to get good drifts,
detect strikes, get good hook ups, and cast weighted nymphs properly
rather than spending all their time untangling flies and becoming
frustrated.

I agree and have abandoned any attempts at a duely. But, that raises
another question I've not seen adequately addressed on the net. I've seen
very informative articles on BH nymphs, drifting weighted nymphs, strike
indicators, etc, but precious little on the specifics of weight how-tos.
Just exactly what is the proper weight for a #18 caddis nymph? In fact,
just exactly what are FF weights? Spin fishing split shot? I've read about
twist-on weights, but still little about technique. How heavy? What type?
Where placed?

One, two, three... Go!

nb

notbob wrote:
On 2008-05-06, Tim Lysyk wrote:


I am with Mike on the multi-fly rigs for beginners. I think it is better
for a beginner to use a single nymph and learn to get good drifts,
detect strikes, get good hook ups, and cast weighted nymphs properly
rather than spending all their time untangling flies and becoming
frustrated.


I agree and have abandoned any attempts at a duely. But, that raises
another question I've not seen adequately addressed on the net. I've seen
very informative articles on BH nymphs, drifting weighted nymphs, strike
indicators, etc, but precious little on the specifics of weight how-tos.
Just exactly what is the proper weight for a #18 caddis nymph? In fact,
just exactly what are FF weights? Spin fishing split shot? I've read about
twist-on weights, but still little about technique. How heavy? What type?
Where placed?

One, two, three... Go!

If you aren't getting strikes the default assumption is that you aren't
getting on the bottom. Add more weight or move your indicator (if you're
using one) up on the leader.

Dual nymphs can really help to get on the bottom. I usually use a
weighted nymph as the "first" fly and a smaller, unweighted nymph as the
dropper. I'll tie up the "dropper" so it wants to float, using
hydrophilic Cabosil or Frog's Fanny (same thing). It drifts along, above
the weighted fly, just above the bottom.

Hang ups are always a problem with nymphing on the bottom, especially in
freestone rivers. Deal with it.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

rw wrote:

I'll tie up the "dropper" so it wants to float, using
hydrophilic Cabosil or Frog's Fanny (same thing).

Oops. Make that "hydrophobic" Cabosil.

Some people say that the Cabosil or Frog's Fanny increases the
attractiveness of nymphs by forming air bubbles, which it's said that
naturals have. That's an interesting idea but I think the jury's still out.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Tue, 06 May 2008 01:53:32 GMT, notbob wrote:

I agree and have abandoned any attempts at a duely. But, that raises
another question I've not seen adequately addressed on the net. I've seen
very informative articles on BH nymphs, drifting weighted nymphs, strike
indicators, etc, but precious little on the specifics of weight how-tos.
Just exactly what is the proper weight for a #18 caddis nymph? In fact,
just exactly what are FF weights? Spin fishing split shot? I've read about
twist-on weights, but still little about technique. How heavy? What type?
Where placed?

Go to a fly shop and buy non-toxic shot. The size of shot that you
will use depends on the speed of the current and the depth of the
water. You want to get the fly down close to the bottom.

I typically use a size 16 - 20 unweighted nymph with enough shot to
get it down. I place the shot on the leader side of the tippet knot,
approximately 18 inches from the fly. The strike indicator (if used)
should be placed about 1 1/2 times the depth of the water. I use a
7 1/2 foot leader.

If your strike indicator (or junction of your line/leader when not
using a strike indicator) is moving faster than the current, you have
drag. If it is moving the same speed as the current, you do not have
enough split shot. The indicator (junction) should be moving slower
than the current. Gauge it by watching bubbles, flotsam, etc that are
in the current.

Make a 20 foot or less cast upstream and lift your rod to get as much
line off the water as you can. (Line on the water helps cause drag.)
Watch your indicator. If it hesitates or goes under, lift your rod
tip to set the hook. As the indicator (junction) comes closer to you,
strip in line without causing the indicator to move. As the indicator
goes past you, slowly lower your rod and slowly let out line. When
you've let out the 20 feet, let your indicator (and fly) swing in the
current. Sometimes you will get a hit on the swing. Don't retrieve
the line for your next cast. Simply pick it up and lob it upstream
for your next cast.

If you fish up and across (standing facing the stream, current left to
right, cast at 10 o'clock or current right to left, 2 o'clock) you
will need to throw several up-stream mends during the drift to
overcome drag.

Nymphing is 3 demensional and more difficult than fishing dries, but
catches more fish than any other method. If you go on the dark side
(nymphing) you may never return to the enlightened side of dry flies.
Just remember, nymphers have bigger balls than sissy dry fly
fishermen. That's why people like Fortenberry will never be good
nymphers. elseg

Dave