Ceviche

On Mon, 12 May 2008 07:46:03 -0500, Conan The Librarian
wrote:


http://www.spain4uk.co.uk/eats/marinated_salmon.htm

Now this one is interesting, mainly because of the website. I didn't
examine the site, but "ceviche" isn't a peninsular Spanish dish, it's
from the Americas, but escabeche, (Moorish) cured/pickled/marinated
fish, is Spanish, so I'm not sure of what they mean to convey with
"ceviche de salmon."

FWIW, my mom used to make escabeche, and IIRC, the word itself
describes the marinade, even though it's rarely said that way. So it
would be "pescado (or whatever) en escabeche". She made it with
firm-fleshed fish (plus carrots, onions and ?) and poached the fish first.

Yeah, IME, one can "escabeche" whatever - chicken, fish, etc., and
AFAIK, the escabeche'ing comes post-cooking (with heat). IMO, it's only
relationship to ceviche is the fact that it involves soaking the fish
and the terms sound similar, I guess - see below

I'm wondering if someone didn't decide that the two words (ceviche
and escabeche) sound similar enough that they would try to link them
linguistically.

I think that may be exactly what's happened - someone in the UK or on
the continent knew, generally, what escabeche was and heard, again
generally, about ceviche, and somehow, the two wound up combined/mixed.
Obviously, one can call a dish whatever they wish, but what the posted
recipes produce is nothing like what would be recognized as "ceviche" in
the Americas, nor is it what most Spaniards (or anyone else familiar
with "traditional" escabeche) I know would recognize as "escabeche."

TC,
R


Chuck Vance

In article ,
wrote:


I think that may be exactly what's happened - someone in the UK or on
the continent knew, generally, what escabeche was and heard, again
generally, about ceviche, and somehow, the two wound up combined/mixed.
Obviously, one can call a dish whatever they wish, but what the posted
recipes produce is nothing like what would be recognized as "ceviche" in
the Americas, nor is it what most Spaniards (or anyone else familiar
with "traditional" escabeche) I know would recognize as "escabeche."


The origin of 'escabeche' is easy enough, coming from the Hispanic
Arabic assukkabag, from Arabic sikbag (unfortunate transcription for
airplane travellers - looks better in arabic) and related to the
Persian sekba.

The arabic and persian both mean simply 'meat stew with vinegar', and
the thing about it is that it's cooked.

There's a translation of a 13th Century Andalusian (ie Arabic) recipe
for Sikbaj at

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Mediev...an/andalusian4.
htm#Heading150

The etymology of 'ceviche' is controversial. Some people believe that
it derives originally from the Latin 'cibus' (food), some say it's
from the Quecha word for the dish 'siwichi', but many Peruvians
(including Gaston Acurio somewhere) believe that it is indeed derived
from 'escabeche de cebolla' (onion escabeche).

Lazarus

On Fri, 16 May 2008 09:59:32 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:


I think that may be exactly what's happened - someone in the UK or on
the continent knew, generally, what escabeche was and heard, again
generally, about ceviche, and somehow, the two wound up combined/mixed.
Obviously, one can call a dish whatever they wish, but what the posted
recipes produce is nothing like what would be recognized as "ceviche" in
the Americas, nor is it what most Spaniards (or anyone else familiar
with "traditional" escabeche) I know would recognize as "escabeche."


The origin of 'escabeche' is easy enough, coming from the Hispanic
Arabic assukkabag, from Arabic sikbag (unfortunate transcription for
airplane travellers - looks better in arabic) and related to the
Persian sekba.

The arabic and persian both mean simply 'meat stew with vinegar', and
the thing about it is that it's cooked.

There's a translation of a 13th Century Andalusian (ie Arabic) recipe
for Sikbaj at

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Mediev...an/andalusian4.
htm#Heading150

The etymology of 'ceviche' is controversial. Some people believe that
it derives originally from the Latin 'cibus' (food), some say it's
from the Quecha word for the dish 'siwichi', but many Peruvians
(including Gaston Acurio somewhere) believe that it is indeed derived
from 'escabeche de cebolla' (onion escabeche).

Interesting. I don't see how ceviche (sah/suh-vee-che/chee) could have
come from escabeche (s-kaa-beash) other than via written form (as
opposed to via common speech). That alone makes me have some question
as to the connection. I've heard it (ceviche) was a native Americas
dish and term, but not from linguistic experts - sometimes, however,
laypeople know a hell of a lot more than experts, and often, even if
they are a bit fuzzy on details, the kernel of the facts are correct.
I'd offer that the word "siwichi" makes more sense in practical terms,
but ???

TC,
R

Lazarus