A weird dilemma for Obama...

On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:00:56 -0400, jeff miller
wrote:

i don't
accept the notion that the majority of muslims or their governments are
WTT-bombing lunatics and religious zealots when it comes to dealing with
the world community.

Hmmmm. How soon we forget....

Rememer post 9/11? News footage from every major Muslim country/city
celebrating our losses. Syria, Egypt, Saudi A., Iraq, Iran,
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kuwait. Hell, just about everywhere.
Celebrating. Cheering. Happy at our losses. They don't like us,
Jeff. It fact, they hate us. Get used to it. It will be around for
the next hundred years or so. Either they win and everyone goes back
to the Middle Ages, or civilization wins.

OTT, fishing is very good. Took several big brookies this a.m. on the
dreaded Green Rock Worm, several "lesser" ones, and four very nice
(18+ inch) landlocks on the same fly.

The water is warming up but there are no hatches. I am beginning to
fear that the &%$@(@ power company may have scoured the river with
high flows in late winter/early spring, sending all the bugs into the
woods where they died.

Joanne and Jenny are in camp. Spent the night around the fire
listening to Bebel Gilberto and her mom and dad, Astrid and Joao.

Dave

On Jun 3, 9:29*am, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:00:56 -0400, jeff miller

wrote:
i don't
accept the notion that the majority of muslims or their governments are
WTT-bombing lunatics and religious zealots when it comes to dealing with
the world community.

Hmmmm. *How soon we forget....

Rememer post 9/11? *News footage from every major Muslim country/city
celebrating our losses. *Syria, Egypt, Saudi A., Iraq, Iran,
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kuwait. *Hell, just about everywhere.
Celebrating. *Cheering. *Happy at our losses. *They don't like us,
Jeff. *It fact, they hate us. *Get used to it. *It will be around for
the next hundred years or so. *Either they win and everyone goes back
to the Middle Ages, or civilization wins.


I don't remember that. I remember one picture of a bunch of kids in
Palestine, but that was rather spurious and easily written off the
adrenaline of youth being exposed to global affairs way beyond their
understanding. I would not be surprised if there were pictures from
other places, but I never saw "news footage from every muslim country
celebrarting our losses". And I give those pictures exactly as much
credibility for being representative of any 'national perspective' as
I do all the 'Kill them all, let God sort them out" hype that
Americans are famous for. With a bunch of minor exceptions, I don't
think all Americans hate muslims any more than I think all muslims
hate Americans. But there are certainly a lot of droolers on both
sides.

--riverman

Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:00:56 -0400, jeff miller
wrote:


i don't
accept the notion that the majority of muslims or their governments are
WTT-bombing lunatics and religious zealots when it comes to dealing with
the world community.


Hmmmm. How soon we forget....

Rememer post 9/11? News footage from every major Muslim country/city
celebrating our losses. Syria, Egypt, Saudi A., Iraq, Iran,
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kuwait. Hell, just about everywhere.
Celebrating. Cheering. Happy at our losses. They don't like us,
Jeff. It fact, they hate us. Get used to it. It will be around for
the next hundred years or so. Either they win and everyone goes back
to the Middle Ages, or civilization wins.

OTT, fishing is very good. Took several big brookies this a.m. on the
dreaded Green Rock Worm, several "lesser" ones, and four very nice
(18+ inch) landlocks on the same fly.

The water is warming up but there are no hatches. I am beginning to
fear that the &%$@(@ power company may have scoured the river with
high flows in late winter/early spring, sending all the bugs into the
woods where they died.

Joanne and Jenny are in camp. Spent the night around the fire
listening to Bebel Gilberto and her mom and dad, Astrid and Joao.

Dave



forgotten a lot, but not that... or similar images of radical conduct at
a high school in little rock, arkansas... not sure it's pertinent to
the point though. why do you think they hate us dave?

good to hear tales of the rapid and your times there. do you go down to
the place where the old dam building was removed? i have a special
memory of a large brook trout i caught on a streamer just below the dam
and in view of that old house perched up on the bluff. the streamer
looked like part of the fender from a buick, created and loaned to me by
our canadian friend peter. he also showed me how to fish streamers in
that current. i miss those pleasant times at that place. but...i've
been fishing for puppy drum and enjoying a renewed experience with the
sal****er scene. haven't seen any reports of your friend ken's redfish
adventure in louisiana, but you should give that kind of fishing a go.
if you think a big brookie or salmon in the river currents can pull,
wait until you get one of those swimming anvils on your line.

jeff

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 07:52:35 -0400, jeff miller
wrote:

forgotten a lot, but not that... or similar images of radical conduct at
a high school in little rock, arkansas... not sure it's pertinent to
the point though. why do you think they hate us dave?

Our support (rightfully so!) of Israel sure doesn't help our cause.
The fact that we are not a muslim nation also doesn't help. And, of
course, we are the rich guy on the block; everyone hates rich people.
d;o)


good to hear tales of the rapid and your times there. do you go down to
the place where the old dam building was removed?

Fished it the other day. Not too much happening. A few small
brookies (12 inchers) and some nice salmon. The currents at the
island are fishing very well, as is the wing dam pool.

I took a "worth-the-trip" brookie at the dam late yesterday in pouring
rain on a modified PT. The flow is at 400 (you can wade just about
anywhere) and at that flow I can get to water that is not normally
fished with a good presentation/drift. Cast over a rock and pulled
the fly up and over it until it dropped in front of the rock into a
nice little hole. BAM! A 4 - 5 pound female brookie took the size 18
nymph and I netted her about 4 minutes later. She was not a happy
camper. Some very big salmon are also being hooked. I lost several
yesterday fishing dries in the rain. Harry's "Killer Caddis" is now
my go-to fly.

i have a special
memory of a large brook trout i caught on a streamer just below the dam
and in view of that old house perched up on the bluff. the streamer
looked like part of the fender from a buick, created and loaned to me by
our canadian friend peter. he also showed me how to fish streamers in
that current.

I miss Peter, especially up here. His knowledge of streamer fishing
is unmatched. I bought some wet flies and was swinging them in the
currents yesterday. Took some nice salmon with them. Of course I
thought of Peter while doing it.

i miss those pleasant times at that place. but...i've
been fishing for puppy drum and enjoying a renewed experience with the
sal****er scene. haven't seen any reports of your friend ken's redfish
adventure in louisiana, but you should give that kind of fishing a go.
if you think a big brookie or salmon in the river currents can pull,
wait until you get one of those swimming anvils on your line.

I just can't get into the salt thingy. I have tried and caught some
nice stipers, but my love is wading in a stream and catching trout. or
salmon. Pull? Try a Russian 32 inch rainbow. d;o)

Jenny has discovered water, including mud puddles. She loves it up
here almost as much as we do.

Dave

On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 21:29:15 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:00:56 -0400, jeff miller
wrote:

i don't
accept the notion that the majority of muslims or their governments are
WTT-bombing lunatics and religious zealots when it comes to dealing with
the world community.

Hmmmm. How soon we forget....

Rememer post 9/11? News footage from every major Muslim country/city
celebrating our losses. Syria, Egypt, Saudi A., Iraq, Iran,
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kuwait. Hell, just about everywhere.
Celebrating. Cheering. Happy at our losses.

Huh? While I'd agree that there were scenes of relatively small crowds
"cheering," I'd offer that the vast majority of Muslims were shocked and
horrified at the loss of life. I'd further offer that many Muslims feel
that such broad action is an insult to Islam. IAC, 9/11 had absolutely
nothing to do with Obama and/or his apostation, and I think suggesting
that a repeat is likely based solely upon it is W-A-A-A-A-Y out there.
No, further than that. Nope, further still...

They don't like us,
Jeff. It fact, they hate us.

"They?" OK, name "them." And which "us" are you talking about? Name
them, too, please. While I'd agree that some Muslims do "hate" certain
other groups that may include you, me, jeff, etc., I'd suggest that
Muslims "hating" "Americans" isn't the real issue behind 9/11 and
similar attacks worldwide. The real issue isn't a single issue at all,
it's a whole situation. And no, it isn't Bush's fault, Bill Clinton's
fault, or any other single person or country's fault. And no, McCain,
Obama, and Clinton, together or individually, aren't gonna "fix" it. Get
used to THAT.

Get used to it. It will be around for
the next hundred years or so.

Unless you have a crystal ball, I'd offer that something that has been
going on for over two thousand years isn't likely to be solved - really
- in the next hundred...at least not in a fashion many are going to like
or approve of...

Either they win and everyone goes back
to the Middle Ages, or civilization wins.

Or nobody wins...and most everybody loses...martyrs and those who
actually get a passel of virgins, excepted, perhaps...

OTT, fishing is very good. Took several big brookies this a.m. on the
dreaded Green Rock Worm, several "lesser" ones, and four very nice
(18+ inch) landlocks on the same fly.

The water is warming up

Leaky waders, huh...?

but there are no hatches. I am beginning to
fear that the &%$@(@ power company may have scoured the river with
high flows in late winter/early spring, sending all the bugs into the
woods where they died.

Joanne and Jenny are in camp. Spent the night around the fire
listening to Bebel Gilberto and her mom and dad, Astrid and Joao.

There's a special running around on one of the "educational" channels -
Frank, Joao, and Ella - I only saw part and didn't see Astrid, but what
I saw, I liked - check your local listings, as "they" say...

TC,
R

Dave

wrote in message
...
The real issue isn't a single issue at all,
it's a whole situation. And no, it isn't Bush's fault, Bill Clinton's
fault, or any other single person or country's fault. And no, McCain,
Obama, and Clinton, together or individually, aren't gonna "fix" it. Get
used to THAT.

and that's the Inconvenient Truth...to borrow a phrase...
well put.

Tom

p.s. R: If you find the time, drop me an email.