No bums allowed at the limo liberal spectacular...

if RDean isn't enjoying himself immensely over the direction this thread has
taken, I would be surprisedg

Tom.

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:36:38 -0500, Peaceful Bill
wrote:
Anybody can reduce a deficit by raising taxes. Congress creates new
programs, funds them with higher taxes. New administration comes in and
can't get the programs killed. But to help provide a little relief to
those who actually EARN the money, they reduce taxes.

Yup - and your Republican Congress did exactly that with "The Bush Tax Cuts" -
which were directed at the very top financial stratum of society, while those
in the other 95% were invited to pound sand and carry more weight.

Hopefully this relief stimulates the economy to help offset the reduction in taxes.

Look around you. Did it work? ahahahahahahaha!

But instead of controlling or trying to reduce spending, congress
increases spending and increases the deficit.

And that was your Republican Congress as well...

/daytripper (another reason they'll be packing their bags come January)

On Jul 20, 7:16*pm, Peaceful Bill
wrote:
Opus--Mark H. Bowen wrote:
"Peaceful Bill" wrote in message
. ..
Opus--Mark H. Bowen wrote:
"Peaceful Bill" wrote in message
. ..

Yep, the facts will set you free.

I noticed that you didn't ask about the deficit or federal debt during
the during the Clinton years. Why not?

Op

** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

The topic was gas prices. *So what have the Dems done about the gas
prices? *The dems certainly have had time to put together an energy
policy.

What exactly do you expect them to do, when you have the energy specialists
in the white House?

They were voted into office on the [failed] promise that they would
correct the problems brought on by the Bush administration. *But they
have failed to actually do anything. *Their motto seems to be "Its
better to bitch than to actually do something."

But now they want to raise gasoline taxes!! *Sure, that's a great way to
handle higher gasoline prices. *Raise gas taxes and hand over the 2008
election to the Repubs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The interesting thing about your comments is that each day that passes
more and more of the Neocon slogans that pose as adult thinking, drop
off the Republicrat Spin Card. You are left with mouthing the RNCs
default whine equivalent of "so's your Moma," or Dave's "Clinton made
me do it," or Dean's near coon jokes. Why don't you switch off Rush,
Fox and the rest of the hate America crowd, and listen a bit more to
what McCain and some of the other responsible Republicans who are
reclaiming the traditional moderate and conservative stance of the
party are saying. I admit you might have to listen a bit more
carefully but you will quickly realize that the ground is shifting
away from the screaming wing-nut radicals back to a Republican party
that advances environmental protection and considers the American
working person and family farmers in its policies. You might also
start to understand that the Democratic Party has also shifted toward
the center, and, who knows, you might even open up to fairly
considering both honorable men running for the Presidency, aside from
whether they have an "R" or a "D" next to their name. Good luck

Dave

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:15:04 GMT, "Tom Littleton" wrote:


"Peaceful Bill" wrote in message
.. .
The idea is to let the people who actually make the money to KEEP what
they earn. Its not for income redistribution through higher taxes.

you didn't read one word of what daytripper wrote, did you, Bill?? Idiot.
Tom

Of course he didn't. His tiny head would have exploded.

btw, I can't take any credit for that tome, other than its timely repost.
Someone posted it years ago (in another group, iirc) and I thought it was
brilliant enough to capture for safe keeping and inevitable future use :-)

If I could give proper attribution, I certainly would. Whomever wrote it
deserves some major kudos...

/daytripper

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:17:24 GMT, "Tom Littleton" wrote:

if RDean isn't enjoying himself immensely over the direction this thread has
taken, I would be surprisedg

I don't think he much cares about direction, I think he gets off on duration.
Witness how many words it takes for him to convey the simplest of thoughts...

/daytripper (and I do mean *simplest*)

On Jul 21, 2:52*pm, wrote:
On Jul 20, 7:16*pm, Peaceful Bill
wrote:





Opus--Mark H. Bowen wrote:
"Peaceful Bill" wrote in message
. ..
Opus--Mark H. Bowen wrote:
"Peaceful Bill" wrote in message
. ..

Yep, the facts will set you free.

I noticed that you didn't ask about the deficit or federal debt during
the during the Clinton years. Why not?

Op

** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

The topic was gas prices. *So what have the Dems done about the gas
prices? *The dems certainly have had time to put together an energy
policy.

What exactly do you expect them to do, when you have the energy specialists
in the white House?

They were voted into office on the [failed] promise that they would
correct the problems brought on by the Bush administration. *But they
have failed to actually do anything. *Their motto seems to be "Its
better to bitch than to actually do something."

But now they want to raise gasoline taxes!! *Sure, that's a great way to
handle higher gasoline prices. *Raise gas taxes and hand over the 2008
election to the Repubs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The interesting thing about your comments is that each day that passes
more and more of the Neocon slogans that pose as adult thinking, drop
off the Republicrat Spin Card. You are left with mouthing the RNCs
default whine equivalent of "so's your Moma," or Dave's "Clinton made
me do it," or Dean's near coon jokes. Why don't you switch off Rush,
Fox and the rest of the hate America crowd, and listen a bit more to
what McCain and some of the other responsible Republicans who are
reclaiming the traditional moderate and conservative stance of the
party are saying. I admit you might have to listen a bit more
carefully but you will quickly realize that the ground is shifting
away from the screaming wing-nut radicals back to a Republican party
that advances environmental protection and considers the American
working person and family farmers in its policies. You might also
start to understand that the Democratic Party has also shifted toward
the center, and, who knows, you might even open up to fairly
considering both honorable men running for the Presidency, aside from
whether they have an "R" or a "D" next to their name. Good luck

Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bill, I also want to point out that there is a connection between the
stubborn, dead-ender, "No good taxes," "No role for government,"
sloganeering that has passed for the failed Bush agenda these past few
years, and the incompetence, waste and overall failure of the Bush
Presidency. The connection is this:

If we elect an administration that hates government, to run our
government, is it any mystery that they are incompetent at the
business of running an efficient government? And what your crowd did,
for example in Iraq, was to send in a bunch of 20-something rightwing
nerds, fresh out of the college Young Republican Clubs to run the
occupation and reconstruction. As a result they didn't have the
whiskers or the business knowledge to set up proper accounting and
were no match for the war profiteers and so, well you know the rest of
the story. What a ****ing mess. Shall we talk about the dozens of
other messes created by the structural failure of the wing-nuts to
develop a competent cadre of public sector managers?
Would you fly on a plane piloted by a pilot who hated airplanes? I
don't think I would.

Dave

"Peaceful Bill" wrote in message
...
Opus--Mark H. Bowen wrote:
"Peaceful Bill" wrote in message
...

The cause for most of the debt are the entitlement programs created by
the Democrats.

Please provide proof--actual facts--that support this laughable
assertion.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10609044/

Entitlement programs eat up more than half the budget.

"The cause for most of the debt are the entitlement programs created by
the Democrats." (your words)

You are mixing apples and oranges. The federal budget and the National Debt
are two different things. Federal borrowing is running up the federal
debt--whether it is leaving Treasury Securities in the Social Security Fund
or selling Treasury Securities to the Japanese, Chinese, English, or all
others.

Here's a website with a nice easy to read pie-chart showing who owns what
portion of our nation's debt--as or June 2007.
http://www.optimist123.com/optimist/...-billion-.html

This is quite informative as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

"the biggest holder of Treasury debt was the U.S. government itself, with
about 52 percent of the total $8.5 trillion in paper that's out there. Most
of the government’s holdings are massive savings accounts for programs like
Social Security and Medicare." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17424874/

One of the "mandatory spending" programs that you might call an entitlement
is
"interest on National Debt--9% of budget.

Yes, Social Security is 21% of budget--but it is fully funded, except that
both parties tend to rob form it
and leave Treasury Securities as IOUs.

Medicare and Medicaid/SCHIP is about 7.2% of the budget--part of Medicare
pays for itself and part doesn't.

Then there's Unemployment, Welfare and other mandatory spending at about
11.2% of
the budget.
http://useconomy.about.com/od/fy2008..._Mandatory.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:F...bycategory.png

Now which of these useless programs are you willing to do away with? We
could simply stop paying on the National Debt--of course we could say
goodbye to the American way of life as we know it. Perhaps we could rescind
the Unemployment Compensation Tax--of course then anyone who lost their job
would have to steal, rob, or pillage their way to a better life. We could
could rescind the Social Security taxation system--but then all of those
poor people paying a few extra cents a gallon for gas wouldn't really need
any gas as they would simply waste away. You know these are the folks that
didn't quite make it educationally or were too lazy to find high paying
positions as CEOs, or maybe they were just unfortunate entrepreneurs and
small business folks that fell on hard times. Nonetheless, let them eat
cake, right! I know, why don't we rid ourselves of that pesky Medicare and
Medicaid/SCHIP--I mean, old people need to die anyway, and if they're dead
they won't need any medications and the children who are provided for by
SCHIP can scrounge for healthcare the best they know how, right.

OOOOOHHH NOOOOOO Mr. Bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And why is there a housing / mortgage crisis? Banking crisis? Were
those a result of laws passed during the Clinton administration to make
it easier to get mortgage loans? Just what was the origin of the
sub-prime crisis?

I'd say it's greed unregulated among a very protected group and that both
parties are to blame, but you seem hell bent to blame Clinton and his
admin. before you know the simplist of facts. And what banking crisis are
you speaking of?

The banking crisis was referenced by previous poster in this thread.
"daydripper" is it?

So you took it an ran with it? I suspect 'trippers referent to the "banking
crisis" was a bit overblown, but I have been wrong before. Yes, some of the
larger banks are experiencing difficulties due to the subprime debacle, but
I wouldn't portray such as a banking crisis. Again, I'm a mere electrician
and far from an economist, but I reports of the demise of America's banks is
greatly exaggerated. However:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...sOnTheWay.aspx
http://www.247wallst.com/2008/02/signs-point-to.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...oogle+S earch

I could be wrong.

Both parties are to blame. Not just Clinton, but he's a pretty easy
target.


What undermining of the EPA? Do you mean creating sensible rules in
which to live and operate?

So breathing and drinking water aren't high on your list of living
standards? Not that I'm surprised mind ya.

Where is it in this country (not China, India, Japan or Thailand) were the
air is unbreathable? What city water supplies don't pass drinking water
standards?

http://tinyurl.com/6qghho
https://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/2005.asp
http://lungaction.org/reports/stateoftheair2005.html
http://www.takebackthepower.net/cong...es.cfm?ID=8368

Enjoy the reading, it's really very sad.


Undermining the FDA? Do you mean getting potentially helpful drugs to
the needy in a more timely manner?

Please support this claim! Hell the poor and elderly were and likely
still are driving across the border to Canada to gain access to
reasonably priced meds! And a slew of med have been pull in the last 7
years due to falsified or poor testing standards.

In the last 7 years? That means that they were developed, tested and
released more than 7 years ago. During the previous administration.

What has development got to do with *approval*? Approval was under the Bush
Admins. watch.
Weakening regulatory agencies--reduced funding--and stripping agencies of
their regulatory authority has been the bread and butter of the Bush
Administration and the Republican controlled Congress.

Personally, I'll pay higher taxes to preserve my air and water quality. YMMV
though.

Op


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:20:55 -0700, Janice wrote:

Damn that is one heck of a big spike during bush/reagan
One of the reasons I supported Reagan were his words during his first
presidential campaign:
"The greatest threat to America today is the national debt."
Of course I assumed he was going to reduce it. Silly me.
I googled to confirm the exact wording and found this.
http://www.geocities.com/thereaganye...omicpolicy.htm
Odd how we forget what actually happened during those years and are
willing to accept the bs fed to us by the right wing.
The up side is he was one of the reasons I broke with over 200 years
of family right wing tradition and have not supported a nut case
since.

Kiyu

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:17:24 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:


if RDean isn't enjoying himself immensely over the direction this thread has
taken, I would be surprisedg

Tom.

I've not read it all, and probably won't, but the one thing I do find
amusing with all of the little right vs. left "debates" involving folks
in the US firmly entrenched in one camp or the other is that they seem
to actually believe that their one guy (of the moment) is the sole
salvation of the planet and the other one guy (of the moment) is the
sole cause of all the problems of the planet...ah, well, those who don't
know history are doomed to repeat it...again and again and again...

TC,
R

In article ,
says...
So breathing and drinking water aren't high on your list of living
standards? Not that I'm surprised mind ya.

Where is it in this country (not China, India, Japan or Thailand) were
the air is unbreathable?



I'm guessing that referring you to a book is probably ****ing in the
wind, but here goes:
http://tinyurl.com/5gqx3o
Perhaps it will be easier for you if get an overweight Vicodin addict
to read it to you over AM radio.

Kevin,
who does admire the dude's ability to take a beating from the clue bat.

--
Kevin Vang
reply to kevin dot vang at minotstateu dot edu