As this seems to be a popular topic at the moment....

"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
...

A couple of years ago, our local wine society had a tasting of Gallo
wines bottled under other brand names. All sold for about eight
bucks or less, and I thought all but one were excellent. The other
tasters (N 50) thought so too. The scores, IIRC, were around 17 or
18 out of 20.

There's no reason Gallo shouldn't produce outstanding wines. Ernesto
and Julio can afford to hire more enologists, agronomists, chemists,
blenders, etc., than could fit in most wineries. Even their "Hearty
Burgundy" jug wine, at $2.78 per gallon (in PA), which wine snobs
pooh-poohed, beat out much higher-priced wines at blind tastings back
in the 1960s. Really shocked the snobs.

I discovered Gallo's "Twin Valley" line a few months ago. I don't know
whether it's a new line or something I'd simply overlooked because it's in
the cheap domestic aisle. At any rate, it's drinkable and at $4 per bottle,
a very good deal.

A popular saying goes, "You get what you pay for." Nothing could be
further from the truth! No economist believes that. It's a saying
coined by someone who wanted to overcharge consumers for his product,
and has been picked up and perpetuated by other sellers with the same
goal.

There is always a particle of truth in popular lies. This is what makes
aphorisms....which invariably fall apart when examined....so popular and
easy for people to swallow. My own favorite (well, one of them anyway) is,
"If you wrestle with pigs you get dirty......and the pigs like it".
Personally, I don't mind getting dirty and, as has been demonstrated, the
pigs don't like it one goddamned bit.

We've found both the Yellowtail ....

The current Consumer Reports gives Yellowtail chardonnay a "best buy"
rating. I tasted some a week ago, and I thought it was as good as any
chardonnay I could recall.

I must confess it's even better than mine! (Man, that hurt!)

Didn't know that you are a vintner. What a marvelous array of talents is
ROFF!

Camelot....

As you may know, that wine is made by Kendall Jackson.

Nope, I didn't know that. Given your remarks below, this is especially
interesting because we don't much care for the products sold under the
Kendall Jackson label. The Camelot merlot is one of Becky's favorites.
After sharing a bottle last night, I mentioned to her that while I think
it's o.k., I don't like it nearly as much as some of our other regular
selections, nor as much as she does. Some time soon, I'm going to try the
Kendall Jackson and the Camelot side by side.

It is a widespread practice among manufacturers of various kinds of
goods to sell *exactly* the same product at two different prices, to
increase profits by garnering two different groups of consumers.
Marketing people call it "market segmentation." Economists call it
"pricing discrimination."

This may seem irrational to someone not familiar with economic
analysis, but it increases profits by a surprisingly large amount. It
is far more profitable than trying to increase sales of one brand at
one price.

A good friend who owns a local winery (Mt. Nittany Winery; I think
some roffers visited it during one of the claves). A couple of years
ago, we were tasting some of his wines, when a mutual friend asked,
"Joe, what 's the difference between the regular chardonnay and the
"Proprietor's Reserve"?

Joe said, "It costs five dollars more."

Whether Kendall Jackson and Charles Shaw sell the same wine at two
different prices, I have no idea. They don't tell me their business
secrets. But I wouldn't be surprised. I'd be more surprised if they
don't .

I wouldn't expect them to be that dumb.

All of which bumps up against the principle of truth in advertising. I
suppose that most such practices stop short (to various degrees) of being
outright illegal, but they certainly raise some very interesting ethical
questions. Discussions of these matters always remind me of why I still
have a copy of Orvis's 1993 Spring Fishing and Outdoor catalog (vol. IV,
no.2). In the far upper right hand corner of page 43, one of several pages
dedicated to their fly selection, in very small type, are the words, "All
Orvis flies are tied in the United States or are imported".

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

Thus far we haven't found much from Europe, South America, South
Africa or any other region apart from those named above that suit both
our tastes and our budget. Either they don't make anything in those
places that meet our criteria or they're keeping all the good stuff
for themselves.......the *******s.


Wolfgang: Seeing as you are a red man, if you have a well-stocked winestore
you peruse, ask them if they have any South African "Pinotage" on hand. Its
a local thing and not well-exported, and many different growers bottle it,
however, if you can get hold of Jacobsdaal, any time in the mid 1990s,
you'll be pleasantly suprised. Its a very full-bodied red; well rounded,
etc. Since so many vinters make it, you'll find many different flavors, so
if you come across several brands, keep sampling until you find one you
like.

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

Thus far we haven't found much from Europe, South America, South
Africa or any other region apart from those named above that suit both
our tastes and our budget. Either they don't make anything in those
places that meet our criteria or they're keeping all the good stuff
for themselves.......the *******s.


Wolfgang: Seeing as you are a red man, if you have a well-stocked
winestore
you peruse, ask them if they have any South African "Pinotage" on hand.
Its
a local thing and not well-exported, and many different growers bottle it,
however, if you can get hold of Jacobsdaal, any time in the mid 1990s,
you'll be pleasantly suprised. Its a very full-bodied red; well rounded,
etc. Since so many vinters make it, you'll find many different flavors, so
if you come across several brands, keep sampling until you find one you
like.

Our regular source, a neighborhood supermarket, isn't likely to have
anything that exotic, but we make occasional trips to shops with a very good
selection. I'll look for those next time we make such a pilgrimage. Thanks
for the tip.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote in message ...

snip
There is always a particle of truth in popular lies. This is what makes
aphorisms....which invariably fall apart when examined....so popular and
easy for people to swallow. My own favorite (well, one of them anyway) is,
"If you wrestle with pigs you get dirty......and the pigs like it".
Personally, I don't mind getting dirty and, as has been demonstrated, the
pigs don't like it one goddamned bit.

snip

Wolfgang

Wolfgang,
Consider what you just said above from the veiwpoint of an outside observer of the wrestling matches.
While you obviously consider those you are wrestling with to be the pigs, from their perspective the
roles are reversed. And, for an outside observer, it's sometimes difficult to tell which is which.
;)


--
Bob Weinberger - La Grande, OR

Remove "invalid" and place a dot between bobs and stuff to reply email

"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
...


Wolfgang,
Consider what you just said above from the veiwpoint of an outside
observer of the wrestling matches.
While you obviously consider those you are wrestling with to be the pigs,
from their perspective the
roles are reversed. And, for an outside observer, it's sometimes
difficult to tell which is which.
;)

Would it surprise you if I said that neither of those possibilities had ever
occurred to me?

It would me.

We all describe the world as we see it. Some people are myopic, some
possessed of a preternatural acuity. In either case, the description will
probably leave most of us dubious. Some people are blessed.....or
cursed....with a view that never changes, while others can hardly cope with
the kaleidoscopic barrage that assails them, whether with delight or terror.
Some people see well enough but simply don't have much to say about it and
others, though blind, can't be made to shut up. Sometimes it's difficult to
tell which of those are which too. At any rate, I would be suspicious of
any of them who claimed that he or she could invariably tell the pigs from
the wrestlers in a writhing mass of filthy bodies. Meanwhile, who among us
can honestly claim to walk by such spectacles without at least occasionally
stopping to take a peak?.......um, aside from Steve, that is.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang wrote:

Would it surprise you if I said that neither of those possibilities had ever
occurred to me?

It would me.

We all describe the world as we see it. Some people are myopic, some
possessed of a preternatural acuity. In either case, the description will
probably leave most of us dubious. Some people are blessed.....or
cursed....with a view that never changes, while others can hardly cope with
the kaleidoscopic barrage that assails them, whether with delight or terror.
Some people see well enough but simply don't have much to say about it and
others, though blind, can't be made to shut up. Sometimes it's difficult to
tell which of those are which too. At any rate, I would be suspicious of
any of them who claimed that he or she could invariably tell the pigs from
the wrestlers in a writhing mass of filthy bodies. Meanwhile, who among us
can honestly claim to walk by such spectacles without at least occasionally
stopping to take a peak?.......um, aside from Steve, that is.

Wolfgang

****ing in your pants will only keep you warm for so long.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote in message
ink.net...


****ing in your pants will only keep you warm for so long.

Don't need it.

Wanna know what keeps me warm?

Wolfgang

I discovered Gallo's "Twin Valley" line a few months ago. I don't know
whether it's a new line or something I'd simply overlooked because it's in
the cheap domestic aisle. At any rate, it's drinkable and at $4 per bottle,
a very good deal.

Don't recall if that was one we tasted, but it might have been.
Because I rarely if ever buy wine (I make my own), I didn't think to
save the various brand names.

"If you wrestle with pigs you get dirty......and the pigs like it".
Personally, I don't mind getting dirty and, as has been demonstrated, the
pigs don't like it one goddamned bit.

Well, I think that proves that Wisconsin pigs are lacking in
testosterone. Pennsylvania pigs like nothing better than to get down
and dirty with a Penn State animal husbandry major. Coed.

Didn't know that you are a vintner. What a marvelous array of talents is
ROFF!

Hey, I won three gold medals this year at our annual blind tasting!

Chardonnay, Blueberry, and Sherry.

Even The Pirate approved of my Zinfandel, when I brought it to the
Penns Clave two years ago. I quote him verbatim:

"Well, it doesn't smell like wet dog!"

My heart lept with joy.

It is so nice to be appreciated.

Some time soon, I'm going to try the
Kendall Jackson and the Camelot side by side.

Let us know what you conclude.

All of which bumps up against the principle of truth in advertising.

Wolfgang, where in the world did you get the notion that there is any
such thing as as a principle of truth in advertising?

I suppose that most such practices stop short (to various degrees) of being
outright illegal,

Ad agencies retain lawyers to enable them (not always successfully) to
get as close as possible to the line, without getting a "cease and
desist" order from the FTC. Obviously, if they were trying to tell
the exact truth, those lawyers would not be needed.

I still have a copy of Orvis's 1993 Spring Fishing and Outdoor catalog ....
in very small type, are the words, "All
Orvis flies are tied in the United States or are imported".

I remember that. But mail-order catalogs are probably the least-false
(I refuse to say "truest") ads, because it's so easy to find out when
goods do not live up to the description.

The worst ads are national (tv and mag) ads for what are called
"homogeneous packaged goods." They are all esentially, if not
exactly, the same, so the agency copywriters are severely taxed to say
something that will get us to prefer their brand, without crossing
that line.

vince

I've noticed similar things. I know a WASP with a liberal arts degree from
an Ivy League university who can't write worth a damn.

Here's the explanation:

In grade and high school, teachers dare not flunk students, no matter
how badly they perform. Parent bitch at principals, or threaten to
sue, and pressure is put on teachers to give passing grades.

I've been told horror stories about this by several teachers.

In college, the basic English courses are taught by grad students, who
have more more important things to do than teach freshmen to write
well. They quickly learn that if they give their students good
grades, those students will not come to their offices for additional
help, or to complain about grades; and they will have more time to
work on their own theses, get their degrees, and start making money.

In other courses, teachers give multiple guess exams because they can
be graded by a machine, and because "It's not my job to teach
English."

"give me a couple of Chinese and a three guys from India and we'll show you
how to run a derivatives operation." Which is what we are doing, more and
more.

The definition of "terror" is: Walking into your math class and
seeing that all the other students are kids from Asia.

vince

Wolfgang wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
ink.net...



****ing in your pants will only keep you warm for so long.


Don't need it.

Wanna know what keeps me warm?


A heated string of lengthy, oracular ROFF put downs?

Willi