New Waders

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:19:20 -0500, "Yuji Sakuma"
wrote:

Hi Bill,

It is fine that you are patriotic and choose to promote American products
but I am Canadian and I am looking for price/performance - country of origin
is not a criterion for me. For example, I notice that the best outdoor
gear, with a couple of exceptions, is designed by American companies, such
as Patagonia, Marmot, Mountain Hardware, etc., and fabricated offshore. My
experience with Goretex in outerwear is that it is technically good, maybe
the best, but that the difference in performance with other
waterproof-breathable membranes for most applications is marginal. I was
happy with the Orvis Clearwater waders except for the awful fit and the
ridiculous double knees (which trapped water). Just because something is
made in America does not make it the best; ask me if I would rather own a
German car or a Japanese camera. That said, I think Simms does make the
best waders.

Yuji

After comparing Canadian Wardells to Simms Freestones (same dollars),
I wouldn't touch the Simms with a barge pole (durability). However,
if you're after maximum portability the Wardells, being heavier, won't
pack down like the Freestones. I'd go back and have another look at
Clearwaters as I think Orvis has gone back to the original formula. I
put six hard seasons on my Clearwaters and their still my backups and
(Frank's G).

I've now put one and half seasons on my Wardells and I remain very
happy with them.

Peter

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Peter,

I was in your local fly shop (Grindstone) looking at waders last Saturday
and I did see the Wardells but they are too heavy for what I want them for.
You know, I am an agnostic as far as country of origin goes these days. The
Horror! Bimmers assembled by good ol' boys in the deep south instead of
Turks in Germany! Canons/Nikons made in southeast asia! (is it Malaysia?).
No, the world outside is not as backward as some people think.

Yuji

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...

After comparing Canadian Wardells to Simms Freestones (same dollars),
I wouldn't touch the Simms with a barge pole (durability). However,
if you're after maximum portability the Wardells, being heavier, won't
pack down like the Freestones. I'd go back and have another look at
Clearwaters as I think Orvis has gone back to the original formula. I
put six hard seasons on my Clearwaters and their still my backups and
(Frank's G).

I've now put one and half seasons on my Wardells and I remain very
happy with them.

Peter

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http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:39:38 -0500, "Yuji Sakuma"
wrote:

Peter,

I was in your local fly shop (Grindstone) looking at waders last Saturday
and I did see the Wardells but they are too heavy for what I want them for.
You know, I am an agnostic as far as country of origin goes these days. The
Horror! Bimmers assembled by good ol' boys in the deep south instead of
Turks in Germany! Canons/Nikons made in southeast asia! (is it Malaysia?).
No, the world outside is not as backward as some people think.

Yuji

Ya, but they're way more comfortable if you don't tell 'em about it.



Peter

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Say, has anybody checked this little prick for Sars?

"Yuji Sakuma" wrote in message
.. .
Peter,
Yuji

In article ,
babbles...


Hart, you were behaving almost like a civilized member
of polite society for a while. I think it might be time
to put a fresh layer of aluminum foil in the hat, as the
current one seems to be wearing out. In fact, you might
want to double up, as there is an election year coming up.

Ever helpful,

Kevin

Pricks like Yuji gets as they deserve Vang. He chose not to keep his
bull**** to hissownself, let him wallow in it.
--
Wayne
To Fish is Human...To Release Divine!

"Kevin Vang" wrote in message
...
In article ,
babbles...


Hart, you were behaving almost like a civilized member
of polite society for a while. I think it might be time
to put a fresh layer of aluminum foil in the hat, as the
current one seems to be wearing out. In fact, you might
want to double up, as there is an election year coming up.

Ever helpful,

Kevin

Pricks like Yuji gets as they deserve Vang. He chose not to keep his
bull**** to hissownself, let him wallow in it.

I'm not sure I understand this. Americans are the major force behind the
push for globalization. Why? Because Americans feel that market forces
should rule, right? Aren't we all about capitalism? Isn't it all about the
Great American Dream? And really, we only are pushing for globalization
simply because we think it benefits us. And so far it has. We may have
lost some manufacturing jobs since NAFTA, for example, but interestingly,
our economy has been incredible since (even including this so-called
recession). Further, one could argue that we are doing the world some good
by exporting jobs to places that need it (and yes, I suspect there's some
abuses in 'sweat shops' but I also believe most people employed due to
globalization are happy to be working...even $.10 an hour is better than
nothing, especially when the average annual income is measured in dollars,
maybe hundreds of dollars, not tens of thousands of dollars; the United
States was scrambling for those kind of jobs a century or two ago), and one
could argue that we are exporting the 'dirty' jobs (manufacturing typically
includes a lot of environmental damage -- yes I understand we are sending
them to countries with less restrictive environmental laws and maybe instead
of complaining about it, we should help those countries understand the value
of environmental protections (not easy with Bush exiting the Kyoto
protocol--but even that continued the abuses of third-world countries)),
therefore benefiting our local environment.

So, in essence, by taking on an American-made only stance, one is left with
siding with protectionism and government regulations (similar to siding with
socialism and communism; and of course, also taking a stance contrary to the
recent WTO ruling regarding the improper American steel tariffs) and also
supporting limited consumer choice, but one is also left with 1) it's better
to have American's making a relatively low wage compared to foreign *people*
making a relatively decent wage, 2) attempting to keep the *dirty* work here
(ask your local Trout Unlimited chapters about the history of industrial
pollution in this country) and 3) attempting to retard the progression to a
more "knowledge-based" economy -- and after all, isn't that why you want
your children to get a good education?

And of course, what's wrong with a guy wanting the best freakin' waders for
the money? Skip the fact that he's Canadian and couldn't give a flip about
whether some American made it (similarly to how American's aren't checking
for the "Made in Canada" label).

Lastly, the statement "Pricks like Yuji gets as they deserve Vang." is a
rather humorous mix of seeming ethnicities/nationalities when defending an
American Only stance.

"Tim Carter" wrote in message
...

Pricks like Yuji gets as they deserve Vang. He chose not to keep his
bull**** to hissownself, let him wallow in it.

I'm not sure I understand this. Americans are the major force behind the
push for globalization. Why? Because Americans feel that market forces
should rule, right? Aren't we all about capitalism? Isn't it all about
the
Great American Dream? And really, we only are pushing for globalization
simply because we think it benefits us. And so far it has. We may have
lost some manufacturing jobs since NAFTA, for example, but interestingly,
our economy has been incredible since (even including this so-called
recession). Further, one could argue that we are doing the world some
good
by exporting jobs to places that need it (and yes, I suspect there's some
abuses in 'sweat shops' but I also believe most people employed due to
globalization are happy to be working...even $.10 an hour is better than
nothing, especially when the average annual income is measured in dollars,
maybe hundreds of dollars, not tens of thousands of dollars; the United
States was scrambling for those kind of jobs a century or two ago), and
one
could argue that we are exporting the 'dirty' jobs (manufacturing
typically
includes a lot of environmental damage -- yes I understand we are sending
them to countries with less restrictive environmental laws and maybe
instead
of complaining about it, we should help those countries understand the
value
of environmental protections (not easy with Bush exiting the Kyoto
protocol--but even that continued the abuses of third-world countries)),
therefore benefiting our local environment.

So, in essence, by taking on an American-made only stance, one is left
with
siding with protectionism and government regulations (similar to siding
with
socialism and communism; and of course, also taking a stance contrary to
the
recent WTO ruling regarding the improper American steel tariffs) and also
supporting limited consumer choice, but one is also left with 1) it's
better
to have American's making a relatively low wage compared to foreign
*people*
making a relatively decent wage, 2) attempting to keep the *dirty* work
here
(ask your local Trout Unlimited chapters about the history of industrial
pollution in this country) and 3) attempting to retard the progression to
a
more "knowledge-based" economy -- and after all, isn't that why you want
your children to get a good education?

And of course, what's wrong with a guy wanting the best freakin' waders
for
the money? Skip the fact that he's Canadian and couldn't give a flip
about
whether some American made it (similarly to how American's aren't checking
for the "Made in Canada" label).

Lastly, the statement "Pricks like Yuji gets as they deserve Vang." is a
rather humorous mix of seeming ethnicities/nationalities when defending an
American Only stance.

I don't know how it works in the rest of the world.....never been
there.....but Americans tend to overanalyze even the simplest
things.....witness the above. It's really very simple; the American economy
runs on an abundant supply of cheap aromatic hydrocarbons. Hart's brain
does the same.

Wolfgang
there's no news like old news.

Kevin Vang wrote:
In article ,
babbles...


Hart, you were behaving almost like a civilized member
of polite society for a while. I think it might be time
to put a fresh layer of aluminum foil in the hat, as the
current one seems to be wearing out. In fact, you might
want to double up, as there is an election year coming up.

Ever helpful,

Kevin

It really is embarrassing to be an American sometimes, with people like
Hart mouthing off. My apologies to all non-US members of ROFF for his
offensive behavior.

Bill Kiene has said in the past that American-made waders (Simms and [I
assume] Patagonia) are (in his opinion, presumably) the best in the
market, and that there are a lot of imported waders that just don't
measure up. Thank God there's at least one manufactured item where the
USA is holding its own. Forget hooks -- that's history.

Not having tried any brands of waders recently besides Simms and
Patagonia, I can't offer an educated opinion. I do, however, think it's
rash and shortsighted to try to save money on waders. I have two pair of
Simms guideweights, one of which is a year old and holding up well, and
the other -- my spare -- which was reconditioned (new neoprene feet,
mainly) by Simms at a modest cost of $60, after three years of extreme
abuse. They look kind of funky, but they work like a new pair.

My waders invariably wear out in the feet. I'll get some pinhole leaks
and minor tears that are patchable, but once the feet go, that's it.
Back to the factory.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:02:07 GMT, rw
wrote:


Not having tried any brands of waders recently besides Simms and
Patagonia, I can't offer an educated opinion. I do, however, think it's
rash and shortsighted to try to save money on waders. I have two pair of
Simms guideweights, one of which is a year old and holding up well, and
the other -- my spare -- which was reconditioned (new neoprene feet,
mainly) by Simms at a modest cost of $60, after three years of extreme
abuse. They look kind of funky, but they work like a new pair.


My criteria for waders wasn't the same as Yuji's as I wasn't worried
about small packing. The expensive Simms are obviously excellent but
I was underwhelmed comparing the Freestone to the Wardells. I realize
they're not exactly comparable but the Wardells has suspenders,
buckles and attachment points that were much beefier. Since I wasn't
prepared to lay out megabucks, they were excellent value for the money
and still dry as a bone.



Peter

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