Why is this getting no play??

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:57:23 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:

... He's a genuine hero, Scott. Stop trying to make him out
to be anything else. You're better than that.

John Kerry is also a genuine hero

Er, no.

but that didn't stop the Swift Boat lies.

True enough.

Face the facts, Captain McCain was a first-class ****up as
a midshipman and an officer, the only reason it took them
so long to finally drum his ass out of the Navy was because
he was a legacy officer, the son and grandson of Admirals.

Er, no.

HTH,
R

wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:57:23 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:
... He's a genuine hero, Scott. Stop trying to make him out
to be anything else. You're better than that.
John Kerry is also a genuine hero

Er, no.

but that didn't stop the Swift Boat lies.

True enough.

Face the facts, Captain McCain was a first-class ****up as
a midshipman and an officer, the only reason it took them
so long to finally drum his ass out of the Navy was because
he was a legacy officer, the son and grandson of Admirals.

Er, no.

John Kerry signed Standard Form 180 (SF-180) which allowed the
release of his full military record. The record, and his own
crew, prove that the Swift Boaters were liars.

Captain McCain has refused to sign Standard Form 180 (SF-180).

Why ?

Because he was a royal ****up that's why.

But he was a "hero" too, in the same way many other POWs were
"heroes".

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:16:28 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:57:23 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:
... He's a genuine hero, Scott. Stop trying to make him out
to be anything else. You're better than that.
John Kerry is also a genuine hero

Er, no.

but that didn't stop the Swift Boat lies.

True enough.

Face the facts, Captain McCain was a first-class ****up as
a midshipman and an officer, the only reason it took them
so long to finally drum his ass out of the Navy was because
he was a legacy officer, the son and grandson of Admirals.

Er, no.

John Kerry signed Standard Form 180 (SF-180) which allowed the
release of his full military record. The record, and his own
crew, prove that the Swift Boaters were liars.

Captain McCain has refused to sign Standard Form 180 (SF-180).

Why ?

Because John Kerry voted to seal all POW records...? Are you suggesting
that McCain was flying (and/or crashing) planes while he was a POW?

Because he was a royal ****up that's why.

You've convinced me. McCain should never be allowed to fly a fighter
jet again and Obama is a crackhead dope fiend...

But he was a "hero" too, in the same way many other POWs were
"heroes".

Er, no. His conduct as a POW was heroic, and attempts to diminish that
for political reasons do nothing but reflect badly on those making the
attempt.

HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
John Kerry signed Standard Form 180 (SF-180) which allowed the
release of his full military record. The record, and his own
crew, prove that the Swift Boaters were liars.

Captain McCain has refused to sign Standard Form 180 (SF-180).

Why ?

Because John Kerry voted to seal all POW records...?

Don't be silly, Captain McCain could sign a SF-180 at any time
if he chose to do so. Fact is, the guy was a royal ****up and
he was told that he was never going to be promoted to Admiral
so he quit the Navy. Why did Captain McCain's peers deem him
unfit ? And if Captain McCain isn't fit to be an Admiral why
is he fit to be Commander in Chief ? All Captain McCain has to
do is release his military records, as John Kerry did, and we
will know the answers.

So why has Captain McCain refused to sign SF-180 ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:47:10 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

So why has Captain McCain refused to sign SF-180 ?

Uh, perhaps he got the clap in Alongapo?

Just because he *only* made Captain (O6) and did not make Admiral is
not unusual. Not everyone makes Admiral, even sons of Admirals.

Dave

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:16:28 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

But he was a "hero" too, in the same way many other POWs were
"heroes".

His POW ordeal was not necessary. As the son of a high ranking
admiral, he was offered a release. Remember, his right shoulder, both
arms, and I believe a leg were broken. And they weren't set properly.
He lived in a helluva lot of pain. Yet, when offered an early release
because of his father's position, he refused. First captured, first
released. That's the way it is.

McCain was a hero during the fire aboard Forrestal. His stationary
plane had been hit by an errant missle from another plane on board.
He exited his aircraft, help evacuate others and fight the fire.
THEN, instead of going home with his air group aboard Forrestal (the
carrier was out of commission and headed home for repairs along with
its air groups), McCain volunteered to go aboard Oriskany and continue
his sorties over NVN. THAT is what a true hero would do, not run home
with 3 phony PHs like your hero.

Dave

Dave LaCourse wrote in
:

His stationary
plane had been hit by an errant missle from another plane on board.

I seem to recall someone suggesting that because Cleland's injuries were
from a freindly grenade, this somehow made him less of a hero.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On 8 Oct 2008 12:20:03 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote:

I seem to recall someone suggesting that because Cleland's injuries were
from a freindly grenade, this somehow made him less of a hero.

Cleland's accident had NOTHING to do with his heroism. NOTHING. He
was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He *legitimately* won the
SS for his heroism. The friendly grenade had nothing to do with his
heroism. Sheeeeesh.

Dave

Dave LaCourse wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
But he was a "hero" too, in the same way many other POWs were
"heroes".
snip
THEN, instead of going home with his air group aboard Forrestal (the
carrier was out of commission and headed home for repairs along with
its air groups), McCain volunteered to go aboard Oriskany and continue
his sorties over NVN. THAT is what a true hero would do, not run home
with 3 phony PHs like your hero.

You're as goofy as McCain. Volunteering for combat isn't heroic,
it's incredibly poor judgment. Not to mention juvenile. A *TRUE*
hero takes one look at that monumental disaster known as Vietnam
and gets the hell out of there as quickly as possible to go home
and fight against the war.

The things that pass for heroes I just don't understand.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 07:24:38 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
But he was a "hero" too, in the same way many other POWs were
"heroes".
snip
THEN, instead of going home with his air group aboard Forrestal (the
carrier was out of commission and headed home for repairs along with
its air groups), McCain volunteered to go aboard Oriskany and continue
his sorties over NVN. THAT is what a true hero would do, not run home
with 3 phony PHs like your hero.

You're as goofy as McCain. Volunteering for combat isn't heroic,
it's incredibly poor judgment. Not to mention juvenile. A *TRUE*
hero takes one look at that monumental disaster known as Vietnam
and gets the hell out of there as quickly as possible to go home
and fight against the war.

Ken, you're as wrong as you can possibly be. I know at least one
officer who hated the war, thought it was a monumental mistake and a
waste of lives, but also felt that he had a duty to both obey orders as
well as do his best to see that those under his command had leaders who
would effective lead them. And from what I've seen of fair number of
other men, he apparently wasn't alone in his feelings.

The things that pass for heroes I just don't understand.

More's the pity, and that's just plain sad...

I sincerely hope this helps,
R