And no, it isn't maudlin...

On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 08:43:17 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
wrote:
I really wanted to believe in the promise of Obama, ...
Why are you insulting us ? Do you really think anyone
here is stupid enough to believe that nonsense ?

Sheesh.

Hmmm...I asked every Obama supporter I know, and I know a fair amount,
to give me a pitch, and to a person, including those here on ROFF, I got
nothing but parroting of Obama's claims. ...

Bull****. You were given plenty, you just refused to listen
to any of it. This silly, non-partisan nonsense you peddle
here is just a stale old comedy routine. I'm not laughing.

OK. Rub my nose in it. Quote your previous posts where you cited
objective "_facts and figures_" as to why any claim by Obama is the
clearly correct position.

And to top it off, the guy who claims to able to put the financial
system back on track just spent !!__600 mil__!! of OPM to attempt to win
a job that, had he been anything remotely close to "the real deal," he
should have been able to have for the asking.

Yeah right, a black guy asks politely, "Can I be your next president ?"
and the whole country rises up and acclaims it so.

The whole country, huh? In his and your wildest wet dreams, he _might_
get 1/3 of the whole country merely voting for him, and he'll be lucky
if 10% of it is as blindly partisan as you are. Hell, his surrogates
are already lowering expectations on what he'll do and who he'll do it
for (and no, the 250K to 200k to 120K shtick isn't the only thing to
which I refer).

Done deal. How'd that work out down there in Mississippi ? LOL !!

Yeah, that's real non-partisan, bring-the-country-together just oozing
all over...and that's yet another reason I've decided what I have about
Obama, and I can tell you that _many_ others, black and white, and
reached the same conclusion. The whole arrogant, self-absorbed attitude
of Obama and many of his supporters. I find it pretty funny when snotty
"liberals" think nothing of disparaging decent people they perceive as
somehow inferior, yet get all a-tizzy and start screaming "RACIST!" if
someone else disparages "a person of color"...

As for the 600 mil,
that's less than Americans spend in a year on potato chips.

Oh, well, then, that makes it OK...

And the
average Obama donation per person who donated was $87.

Non sequitur. IAC, the "average donation size" is meaningless without
knowing the _accurate_ mins, maxs, and numbers. Under your example, if
he only took a few bribes disguised as contributions and a whole bunch
of $5.00 donations, all would be well.

Small change indeed to run the rat****ers off.

Oh, has he pledged to not accept the job if elected? He is a rat****er,
he's just riding in on a bunch of jackasses rather than an elephant...

Plus, given his positive
media coverage, even a "sorta-kinda deal" should have had this thing
completely sewn up 15 minutes after the GOP convention.

Hope and change, my ass,

Tee hee. You sound positively perturbed. ;-)

Nope, because like I've said several times, no matter who wins, I'll do
just fine, and unlike hypocrites like your boy, I don't make nonsensical
claims about how I put everything and everyone before my family and
myself - I freely admit that, while I would much rather help all I can,
whomever I can, if it comes down to it, it's family and friends first,
and nothing but a sincere "good luck" to the rest.

HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
wrote:
Hmmm...I asked every Obama supporter I know, and I know a fair amount,
to give me a pitch, and to a person, including those here on ROFF, I got
nothing but parroting of Obama's claims. ...
Bull****. You were given plenty, you just refused to listen
to any of it. This silly, non-partisan nonsense you peddle
here is just a stale old comedy routine. I'm not laughing.

OK. Rub my nose in it. Quote your previous posts where you cited
objective "_facts and figures_" as to why any claim by Obama is the
clearly correct position.

You want me to proclaim Obama the messiah ? If the only pitch
anyone could give you which would be convincing is that *any*
claim by Obama is the *clearly correct position*, then yeah,
roff has failed you. Nobody ever claimed any such thing, but
you were given volumes explaining why many of us consider Obama
the best candidate left in the race.

And to top it off, the guy who claims to able to put the financial
system back on track just spent !!__600 mil__!! of OPM to attempt to win
a job that, had he been anything remotely close to "the real deal," he
should have been able to have for the asking.
Yeah right, a black guy asks politely, "Can I be your next president ?"
and the whole country rises up and acclaims it so.

The whole country, huh? In his and your wildest wet dreams, he _might_
get 1/3 of the whole country merely voting for him, and he'll be lucky
if 10% of it is as blindly partisan as you are.

So, it's a damn good thing he ran such an organized, well-disciplined,
brilliant campaign. I though you said he shouldn't have had to
run a campaign at all. Are you flipping or flopping ? ;-)

Done deal. How'd that work out down there in Mississippi ? LOL !!

Yeah, that's real non-partisan, bring-the-country-together just oozing
all over...and that's yet another reason I've decided what I have about
Obama, and I can tell you that _many_ others, black and white, and
reached the same conclusion.

I have never claimed to be non-partisan. I'm a partisan Democrat
and it would be extremely silly for me to claim otherwise. And when
the votes are counted and Mississippi goes for Obama I will ooze
apologies to the good folks of Mississippi from my ice bound winter
home in Hades.

Hope and change, my ass,
Tee hee. You sound positively perturbed. ;-)

Nope, because like I've said several times, no matter who wins, I'll do
just fine, and unlike hypocrites like your boy, I don't make nonsensical
claims about how I put everything and everyone before my family and
myself - I freely admit that, while I would much rather help all I can,
whomever I can, if it comes down to it, it's family and friends first,
and nothing but a sincere "good luck" to the rest.

Ah, a Libertarian. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 09:38:45 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
wrote:
Hmmm...I asked every Obama supporter I know, and I know a fair amount,
to give me a pitch, and to a person, including those here on ROFF, I got
nothing but parroting of Obama's claims. ...
Bull****. You were given plenty, you just refused to listen
to any of it. This silly, non-partisan nonsense you peddle
here is just a stale old comedy routine. I'm not laughing.

OK. Rub my nose in it. Quote your previous posts where you cited
objective "_facts and figures_" as to why any claim by Obama is the
clearly correct position.

You want me to proclaim Obama the messiah ? If the only pitch
anyone could give you which would be convincing is that *any*
claim by Obama is the *clearly correct position*, then yeah,
roff has failed you. Nobody ever claimed any such thing, but
you were given volumes explaining why many of us consider Obama
the best candidate left in the race.

Again, cite any post of yours in which you provided objective _facts and
figures_. Hell, until I corrected you, you liked to tout the "fact"
that he was "the editor" of the Harvard Law Review, which you somehow
decided made him a good choice for POTUS. Hell, Antonin Scalia and John
Roberts were editors, too, so naturally, they are, in your mind, among
the great Supreme Court justices...BTW, Ginsberg and IIRC, either or
both of Breyer and Souter were also editors.

You also touted his legal ability, when in fact, even a merely competent
non-partner-track associate at a moderate civil firm would have had more
legal experience in a year or two than he has had in nearly 15 years
since law school.

Further, you give no importance to Wright - if he's so "on top of
things," give a reasonable defense to Obama being _very_ closely
associated with him for 20 years and calling Wright his spiritual
advisor up until the moment after the **** hit the fan with the videos.

And then, there's the whole public campaign funds lie. He said he'd go
the public funds route and then, when he realized he was better off
without them, he promptly declined. And that isn't a case of a changing
positions in a matter of national interest because of new and better
information, it was a matter of changing positions because it was better
for Obama.

And to top it off, the guy who claims to able to put the financial
system back on track just spent !!__600 mil__!! of OPM to attempt to win
a job that, had he been anything remotely close to "the real deal," he
should have been able to have for the asking.
Yeah right, a black guy asks politely, "Can I be your next president ?"
and the whole country rises up and acclaims it so.

The whole country, huh? In his and your wildest wet dreams, he _might_
get 1/3 of the whole country merely voting for him, and he'll be lucky
if 10% of it is as blindly partisan as you are.

So, it's a damn good thing he ran such an organized, well-disciplined,
brilliant campaign.

Horse****. He ran a spendthrift, wasteful and pandering campaign
designed solely to con those he could and damage those he couldn't. Like
I said, he's just another Clinton...the really sad thing is that many
will see that as a good thing.

I though you said he shouldn't have had to
run a campaign at all. Are you flipping or flopping ? ;-)

I didn't say he shouldn't have had to run a campaign, I said that if he
was anything remotely close to what you (and he) seem to think he is, he
wouldn't have needed 600 mil of OPM...it costs a whole lot more to sell
stuff to folks when the product isn't worth a **** - ask GM...

Done deal. How'd that work out down there in Mississippi ? LOL !!

Yeah, that's real non-partisan, bring-the-country-together just oozing
all over...and that's yet another reason I've decided what I have about
Obama, and I can tell you that _many_ others, black and white, and
reached the same conclusion.

I have never claimed to be non-partisan. I'm a partisan Democrat
and it would be extremely silly for me to claim otherwise. And when
the votes are counted and Mississippi goes for Obama I will ooze
apologies to the good folks of Mississippi from my ice bound winter
home in Hades.

Here's the funny thing - I know lots of folks throughout the South, and
of all races/skin colors, that would have voted for a decent Democrat
and, like me, would have truly loved to see an Obama that lived up to
even just most of the hype. Unfortunately, he doesn't come remotely
close. Hell, I know a lot of middle-aged and older black folks that are
voting McCain because Chuck Taylor (a white Dem) didn't support Obama
(or McCain, either) and for them, basically, a decent old white man that
they feel they know is better than "some uppity-assed Northern oreo that
seems like a real shuck-n-jiver" that don't...granted, you see a lot of
blacks who are supporting Obama based on his skin, but for me, that's
just as racist and wrong as NOT voting for him because of his skin.

Hope and change, my ass,
Tee hee. You sound positively perturbed. ;-)

Nope, because like I've said several times, no matter who wins, I'll do
just fine, and unlike hypocrites like your boy, I don't make nonsensical
claims about how I put everything and everyone before my family and
myself - I freely admit that, while I would much rather help all I can,
whomever I can, if it comes down to it, it's family and friends first,
and nothing but a sincere "good luck" to the rest.

Ah, a Libertarian. ;-)

Nope, a realist.

HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
You want me to proclaim Obama the messiah ? If the only pitch
anyone could give you which would be convincing is that *any*
claim by Obama is the *clearly correct position*, then yeah,
roff has failed you. Nobody ever claimed any such thing, but
you were given volumes explaining why many of us consider Obama
the best candidate left in the race.

Again, cite any post of yours in which you provided objective _facts and
figures_. Hell, until I corrected you, you liked to tout the "fact"
that he was "the editor" of the Harvard Law Review, which you somehow
decided made him a good choice for POTUS.

What is it that you think you "corrected" ? Obama was the president
of the _Law Review_ which made him "the" editor-in-chief with
supervisory responsibility over the entire staff of editors. And
I didn't tout that as reason enough to make him president only
reason enough to assume that he's way smarter than that moron
Sarah Palin.

You want "facts and figures" ? Well, go ahead and cite some. Why
on earth are you voting for the "realist" candidate.

--
Ken Fortenberry

wrote in
:

until it became apparent
that he was just taking his bread to where he thought he'd get more
butter on it.

Yeah, that "better life for all Americans" thing can really seem appealing
until you expose the sundry underside!

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

wrote in message
...
Hmmm...I asked every Obama supporter I know, and I know a fair amount,
to give me a pitch, and to a person, including those here on ROFF, I got
nothing but parroting of Obama's claims. No numbers, no facts, nothing.
And any criticism or even questioning of The Cult of St. Obama is met
with charges of partisanship, ignorance or worse. A fair amount of
folks here are involved in the sciences, and I can't imagine any would
accept such, well, purely subjective anecdotally-generated opinion that
must be accepted without question as evidence of anything.

um.....I neither gave you the standard line, nor did I accuse of
partisanship, nor ignorance. My argument was simple, that Obama has by far
the best chance of healing
a divided nation, and providing leadership away from 'trickle down'
economics. Further, McCain seems to have issues with temperment and rash
decisions, making the choice of Obama far easier. Now, that you don't accept
my premise is fine by me, but don't say you've heard nothing but a party
line.
BTW, to return to the matter of leadership: a Leader is someone capable of
motivating others to work for his general direction. What candidate since
Reagan has had such qualities at the levels Obama offers?

Hope and change, my ass,
R

Hope and change are at your doorstep...just watch.
Tom

On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 21:37:10 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
Hmmm...I asked every Obama supporter I know, and I know a fair amount,
to give me a pitch, and to a person, including those here on ROFF, I got
nothing but parroting of Obama's claims. No numbers, no facts, nothing.
And any criticism or even questioning of The Cult of St. Obama is met
with charges of partisanship, ignorance or worse. A fair amount of
folks here are involved in the sciences, and I can't imagine any would
accept such, well, purely subjective anecdotally-generated opinion that
must be accepted without question as evidence of anything.

um.....I neither gave you the standard line, nor did I accuse of
partisanship, nor ignorance. My argument was simple, that Obama has by far
the best chance of healing a divided nation,

And as you know, I hoped that, too, but he appears to be nothing more
than an empty package, all wrapped up in fancy paper and expensive
ribbons. He's nothing more than a pol and a combination of the worst of
Bush, both Clintons, Edwards, and Gore, to boot.

and providing leadership away from 'trickle down' economics.

I don't think he has the slightest clue about economics and he'll do
whatever he thinks will make him popular with his fans.

Further, McCain seems to have issues with temperment and rash
decisions,

You know, I hear that, but I've not seen any significant example of it.
Has he blown his top in certain private circumstances, yeah, probably,
but most folks have. I will agree that his temperament is probably more
of the type to be headstrong than is Obama, but sometimes that would be
good, other times bad, in a POTUS.

making the choice of Obama far easier. Now, that you don't accept
my premise is fine by me, but don't say you've heard nothing but a party
line.
BTW, to return to the matter of leadership: a Leader is someone capable of
motivating others to work for his general direction.

No, it isn't, at least as far as you seem to be constraining to that as
the sole quality.

What candidate since
Reagan has had such qualities at the levels Obama offers?

Bradley, Romney, Giuliani, Bush (under your criteria above), McCain,
both Clintons (again, under your criteria), and a number of others. From
what I can see, Obama can't do it because he has no real general
direction thus far other than to get elected. If he is elected, when
all the excitement wears off, and he isn't able to make everything
perfect REALLY quickly, I think it's gonna be an, um, "interesting"
period for him and the US.

Hope and change, my ass,
R

Hope and change are at your doorstep...just watch.

That's about all any of us can do at this point...

TC,
R
Tom

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:36:47 -0500, wrote:

I really wanted to believe in the promise of Obama, that he really was a
different kind of politician, that he was what America needed.
Unfortunately, it is becoming clear that he is little more than an
example of how to waste $600 million dollars...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hPR5...eature=related


What the hell are you talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

What the hell are you talking about? Substitute half the countries in
the world and that video remains the same. Whatever lame point you're
trying to make, it's lost.

On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 08:01:31 -0500, wrote:


Hmmm...I asked every Obama supporter I know, and I know a fair amount,
to give me a pitch, and to a person, including those here on ROFF, I got
nothing but parroting of Obama's claims. No numbers, no facts, nothing.
And any criticism or even questioning of The Cult of St. Obama is met
with charges of partisanship, ignorance or worse. A fair amount of
folks here are involved in the sciences, and I can't imagine any would
accept such, well, purely subjective anecdotally-generated opinion that
must be accepted without question as evidence of anything.


You spout the same crap every year. You have nothing to add, ever.
You don't care about people, just party.

On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 19:23:36 -0500, wrote:



Further, McCain seems to have issues with temperment and rash
decisions,

You know, I hear that, but I've not seen any significant example of it.
Has he blown his top in certain private circumstances, yeah, probably,
but most folks have.

Bull****, you're just lazy. Go surf youtube for 10 minutes.

Watch any debate or "youtube moment" and tell me which cool headed
character you'd rather have in a touchy negotiation or diplomatic
situation.