OT- rdean or other oil dudes

rdean,

you leave the impression of knowing a bit about the oil biz

I'm trying to decide whether to get another diesel ( which I lean towards
because milage and longevity ) or a gas truck ( cheaper to buy/ maintain/
feed for at least first 1/4 million miles, unless you have very heavy loads
0

anyway ... I got this reply elsewhere

any truth to the idea that diesel vs gas prices might reverse themselves (
like they used to be )

///////////////

One thing not noted in other answers is that the rise of diesel vs gas
prices is not an unending phenomenon, and it is possible that 2008
reached the peak difference. If you buy for the long-term there is
some expectation that you will see diesel fall back below gas, perhaps
substantially.

Refiners are adding hydrocracking capability in the US, which can
produce much more diesel than gas per barrel. That is the opposite
from typical straight cracking that has been the US standard, which
(while variable to a small degree) produces dramatically more gas than
diesel from a given barrel of oil.

/////////////


likely? anyone that might know

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:42:55 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:

rdean,

you leave the impression of knowing a bit about the oil biz

I'm trying to decide whether to get another diesel ( which I lean towards
because milage and longevity ) or a gas truck ( cheaper to buy/ maintain/
feed for at least first 1/4 million miles, unless you have very heavy loads
0

anyway ... I got this reply elsewhere

any truth to the idea that diesel vs gas prices might reverse themselves (
like they used to be )

///////////////

One thing not noted in other answers is that the rise of diesel vs gas
prices is not an unending phenomenon, and it is possible that 2008
reached the peak difference. If you buy for the long-term there is
some expectation that you will see diesel fall back below gas, perhaps
substantially.

Refiners are adding hydrocracking capability in the US, which can
produce much more diesel than gas per barrel. That is the opposite
from typical straight cracking that has been the US standard, which
(while variable to a small degree) produces dramatically more gas than
diesel from a given barrel of oil.

/////////////


likely? anyone that might know

Here's what oil prices are going to do, I absolutely guarantee it:
change. They will go up and they will go down again and back up again,
etc., etc., etc. Once you throw refined product(s) into the mix,
anything more specific is nothing more than a SWAG. Remember that pump
diesel, jet A/B/A-1/etc., kerosene, and "home heating oil" are about the
same product (ignoring sulfur requirements, anti-statics, dyes, etc.),
but gasoline is used (essentially) solely for "passenger automobiles.
Moreover, by _gallon_ (or bbl), diesel (rather jet A by weight) contains
more "energy"/BTUs than gasoline, but is simpler to fraction. As more
refining comes on line or existing refining is switched back to diesel,
prices _should_ reset, but ??? Of course, the futures market and
taxation also come into play - for example, marine/farm/dyed/"off-road"
diesel is currently about what "gas station" gasoline is, price-wise,
with the lower wholesale/commodity price of gasoline offset by the
reduction in taxes on the diesel. And the commodity price of "heating
oil" seems to rarely match the gain or loss of oil and gasoline
commodity - today, NYMEX oil and gasoline futures went up about 5.5% and
heating oil went up about 7.1%.

That said, unless and until someone develops "bio-gasoline" (and no, I
don't mean ethanol - it contains less "energy" than "gas"), a diesel
engine, at least in principle, has more fueling options than a gasoline
one. But doing a cost analysis on both is something you'll need to do
with your own numbers - there is no "one size fits all" answer.

If you simply want my opinion on what truck to buy, it would be a good,
clean, used low-mileage Ford F250 or F350, depending on need, crewcab
(or Excursion) of about 2001-02 vintage with the 7.3 Powerstroke. There
are a lot of these up for sale, at least from Texas to Florida, as
"urban cowboys" have felt the pain at the pump.

HTH,
R

On Jan 23, 1:22*pm, wrote:

If you simply want my opinion on what truck to buy, it would be a good,
clean, used low-mileage Ford F250 or F350, depending on need, crewcab
(or Excursion) of about 2001-02 vintage with the 7.3 Powerstroke. *There
are a lot of these up for sale, at least from Texas to Florida, as
"urban cowboys" have felt the pain at the pump.

Yeah, new trucks are outrageous. I bought my 97 F250 exactly this way,
though it was harder back then to find a good low-mileage used one.
I'm just up to about 100K miles on it now, hopefully I'll still have
it at 200K. With a heavy stock trailer, 4-low has pulled me through
some nasty stuff...

Jon.

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:50:04 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 23, 1:22*pm, wrote:

If you simply want my opinion on what truck to buy, it would be a good,
clean, used low-mileage Ford F250 or F350, depending on need, crewcab
(or Excursion) of about 2001-02 vintage with the 7.3 Powerstroke. *There
are a lot of these up for sale, at least from Texas to Florida, as
"urban cowboys" have felt the pain at the pump.

Yeah, new trucks are outrageous. I bought my 97 F250 exactly this way,
though it was harder back then to find a good low-mileage used one.
I'm just up to about 100K miles on it now, hopefully I'll still have
it at 200K. With a heavy stock trailer, 4-low has pulled me through
some nasty stuff...

Jon.

Well, that's not really how I meant it, "outrageous" prices. What I
meant was that from a purely "overall cost per mile" (purchase
amortization, fuel/gasoline, maintenance, the ability to run other than
ULSD, etc.) standpoint, a good used diesel would be cheaper than a new
one. If one prefers to pay more for the latest body style, gizmos,
etc., that's fine, but it affects the "cost per mile" via personal
preferences.

TC,
R

On Jan 23, 12:42*pm, "Larry L" wrote:

any truth to the idea that diesel vs gas prices might reverse themselves (
like they used to be )

Hopefully! (diesel F250 and diesel VW Jetta). If you're getting a
truck bigger than a 1/4 ton, or will do significant towing, I can't
imagine going with gas. Even with diesel at 30% more, you're still
probably breaking even in cost, and pumping less CO2 out (particulate
matter is something else). And if you'll be doing any significant
towing, diesel is a hands-down winner.

From my understanding, speaking strictly chemically, diesel ought to
be cheaper than gas since it is a "heavier" product, and thus easier
to produce from crude.

Fed taxes are 6 cents higher on diesel, and some state taxes on diesel
are higher (in my state, 4 cents higher, see
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/wo...sel_taxes.html)

But refining capacity here seems to be the biggest factor. I've also
heard that heating oil competes with diesel for refining capacity, so
winter usually sees a spike in diesel prices. Also the switch to low-
sulfur diesel.

Google "why does diesel cost more than gas" and you'll get lots of
reading.

Jon.

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
rdean,

you leave the impression of knowing a bit about the oil biz

I'm trying to decide whether to get another diesel ( which I lean towards
because milage and longevity ) or a gas truck ( cheaper to buy/ maintain/
feed for at least first 1/4 million miles, unless you have very heavy
loads 0

anyway ... I got this reply elsewhere

any truth to the idea that diesel vs gas prices might reverse themselves
( like they used to be )

///////////////

One thing not noted in other answers is that the rise of diesel vs gas
prices is not an unending phenomenon, and it is possible that 2008
reached the peak difference. If you buy for the long-term there is
some expectation that you will see diesel fall back below gas, perhaps
substantially.

Refiners are adding hydrocracking capability in the US, which can
produce much more diesel than gas per barrel. That is the opposite
from typical straight cracking that has been the US standard, which
(while variable to a small degree) produces dramatically more gas than
diesel from a given barrel of oil.

/////////////

Unfortunately I have not idea what the gas or diesel prices are going to do
in the future.

The only thing I will add, is the fact that you are use to a diesel. Given
the amount of travel and what you pull, I wouldn't consider going to a
gasser. I honestly don't think you would be satisfied with the pulling
power. I believe you also mentioned in a previous post that you might go to
a large trailer if your wife enjoys the summer travel too.

I'm not a gas hater, I've pulled with many, I just don't think there is any
substitute for diesel when pulling.

Love my Dodge 3500 diesel when pulling and I'm getting 21.5 mpg running at
70 unloaded.

My 2 pennies,
JT