Economic Stimul-by-us

On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:50:04 -0700, "JT" wrote:


"Larry L" wrote in message
...
In an effort to do our little bit to get the economy going we bought a new
truck today.

The old one lasted 18++ years, 276,585 miles and is actually still going
strong although it's well past beat up and ugly

The new one is a Dodge 4 door short bed 4X4 with the Cummins diesel, it
has truly awesome power and I can't wait to hook up my trailer and head
over the pass.

However,

I feel very poor now :-(


Nice!

I'm guessing you got an amazing deal given the economic situation? They have
some great offerings in the area, but I can't get my bride on board for a
new one although my '04 still purrs like a kitten.

As RD mentioned, the chips/programmers are really nice and will add major hp
and additional fuel economy.

Not to be disagreeable, but no programmer that I'm aware of can add hp _AND_
additional fuel economy - many can do either, but it's _OR_.

And FWIW, programming for even more HP in an '04, unless you're pulling a D9 up
mountains or something, is wasting fuel and potential engine life (and wearing
other drivetrain components unnecessarily, too). The "MORE HP!!!" craze has hit
everything - that's why you still see older boats with low HP tuning on 6- and
12-71's with about a bazillion hours still running strong and guys who
constantly bury the balls on their hopped-up 2000's having to have rebuilds
after about 30 hours...OK, so not really just 30 hours, but...

TC,
R

TC,
R
With the programmers (like Bullydog) you can
really dial these motors. The only concern would be the potential of voiding
the warranty.

Congrats,
JT

wrote

Not to be disagreeable, but no programmer that I'm aware of can add hp
_AND_
additional fuel economy - many can do either, but it's _OR_.



what you say makes sense to me, ... but in fairness to JT .... I have
checked a couple sites just for the Hell of it and they clearly 'claim'
both


The BullyDog JT mentioned only quotes numbers for the 'more power' stuff ..
but repeatedly mentions 'better mileage'

Another brand? I looked at had customer reviews claiming 2.8 MPG for the
6.7L motor I just got and 'claims' it doesn't alter the truck in any way
detectable to the dealer

YET

the DVD that comes with the truck specifically says something to the effect
that "after market products PERMANTANTLY change" something? and are
detectable


I'm very disappointed in my mileage, thus far ( it's still under 200 miles
and driven only short distances 'in town' ..yeah, yeah, I know they take
time to break in ) and if it doesn't get a LOT better, I'll be an unhappy
camper ( it has a read-out of mileage, so I fret a lot more than I would if
I was just doing the math after a visit to the station )


What brands of after market plug into the harness deals give full control?
not that I know enough to use such a thing the BullyDog seemed to let
you choose between stock and one other setting ... +50HP and 100 ft/lps over
stock

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:44:12 GMT, "Larry L" wrote:


wrote

Not to be disagreeable, but no programmer that I'm aware of can add hp
_AND_
additional fuel economy - many can do either, but it's _OR_.



what you say makes sense to me, ... but in fairness to JT .... I have
checked a couple sites just for the Hell of it and they clearly 'claim'
both

It's semantics - they can do both, but not at the same time. IOW, it's arguably
accurate (well, at least not fraud), albeit misleading, to say "this programmer
can add power and increase mileage" and leave it at that, because originally,
the various 'mainstream" "chips" did one or the other. But the "computer" types
can increase power and increase mileage, just not simultaneously.


The BullyDog JT mentioned only quotes numbers for the 'more power' stuff ..
but repeatedly mentions 'better mileage'

Another brand?

I'm reluctant to recommend because it'd be anecdotal (and on other
vehicles/engines) and I'd not want to have something go wrong, but if I were
buying again, I'd stick with what _I_ have had good results with - Superchips.
Pardon the pun, but YMMV.

I looked at had customer reviews claiming 2.8 MPG for the
6.7L motor I just got and 'claims' it doesn't alter the truck in any way
detectable to the dealer

If they say that, it would concern me. I believe what the law says is that the
warranty cannot be voided by the manufacturer/dealer simply for adding
aftermarket parts unless the part causes the problem - IOW, if you replace the
factory radio with a aftermarket one, and sometime later, the engine throws a
rod, they cannot void the engine warranty because of the stereo, but since we
are talking about "re-tuning" the drivetrain. I can see the manufacturer's
point, especially when the HP is dialed way up from an already-high point, that
such an aftermarket part could and quite possibly did, in fact, contribute to
the issue.

YET

the DVD that comes with the truck specifically says something to the effect
that "after market products PERMANTANTLY change" something? and are
detectable.

AFAIK, when the original "factory" programming is restored, the dealer can't
(and in many cases, doesn't care to) tell. And since you're dialing _down_, not
up, I'd think you'd have a case even if they could tell ***BUT*** I'd suggest
you take the manufacturer info seriously and consider what _could_ happen before
you do anything.


I'm very disappointed in my mileage, thus far ( it's still under 200 miles
and driven only short distances 'in town' ..yeah, yeah, I know they take
time to break in ) and if it doesn't get a LOT better, I'll be an unhappy
camper ( it has a read-out of mileage, so I fret a lot more than I would if
I was just doing the math after a visit to the station )

FWIW, those on-board mileage indicators, IME, are only roughly accurate. I'd do
an actual MPG calculation and then, I'd expect things to get somewhat better
after break-in. Unfortunately, I don't think you're ever gonna get the MPG of
the older models in the newer ones, esp with factory "standard" (i.e., high HP,
"super-torque") tuning. I've heard, but have no experience with it, that
dealers can "de-tune" (ala the aftermarket programmers) for better mileage, but
??? I'd at least ask.

What brands of after market plug into the harness deals give full control?
not that I know enough to use such a thing the BullyDog seemed to let
you choose between stock and one other setting ... +50HP and 100 ft/lps over
stock

I've personally never owned a BullyDog, and based on friends' experiences with
them, I'm not likely to do so...take that, again as anecdotal as it is, for what
you will.

TC,
R

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
I'm very disappointed in my mileage, thus far ( it's still under 200
miles
and driven only short distances 'in town' ..yeah, yeah, I know they take
time to break in ) and if it doesn't get a LOT better, I'll be an unhappy
camper ( it has a read-out of mileage, so I fret a lot more than I would
if I was just doing the math after a visit to the station )

I'm not super familiar with the 6.7, however I noticed about a 1.5 mpg
increase when I hit around the 50 - 55K range in mileage. At this time, I'm
completely stock except an aftermarket Aero muffler and I'm running in the
21 - 21.5 mpg range empty at speeds between 65 - 70 mph.

I know what you mean about having the mpg readout. For the longest time, I
couldn't keep my eyes off it... I have found it to be fairly accurate. Early
on, it was about 1 mpg low, however has been pretty much right on when I
have checked the last several fill ups.

JT

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:50:04 -0700, "JT"
wrote:


"Larry L" wrote in message
...
In an effort to do our little bit to get the economy going we bought a
new
truck today.

The old one lasted 18++ years, 276,585 miles and is actually still going
strong although it's well past beat up and ugly

The new one is a Dodge 4 door short bed 4X4 with the Cummins diesel, it
has truly awesome power and I can't wait to hook up my trailer and head
over the pass.

However,

I feel very poor now :-(


Nice!

I'm guessing you got an amazing deal given the economic situation? They
have
some great offerings in the area, but I can't get my bride on board for a
new one although my '04 still purrs like a kitten.

As RD mentioned, the chips/programmers are really nice and will add major
hp
and additional fuel economy.

Not to be disagreeable, but no programmer that I'm aware of can add hp
_AND_
additional fuel economy - many can do either, but it's _OR_.

And FWIW, programming for even more HP in an '04, unless you're pulling a
D9 up
mountains or something, is wasting fuel and potential engine life (and
wearing
other drivetrain components unnecessarily, too). The "MORE HP!!!" craze
has hit
everything - that's why you still see older boats with low HP tuning on 6-
and
12-71's with about a bazillion hours still running strong and guys who
constantly bury the balls on their hopped-up 2000's having to have
rebuilds
after about 30 hours...OK, so not really just 30 hours, but...

TC,
R

TC,
R
With the programmers (like Bullydog) you can
really dial these motors. The only concern would be the potential of
voiding
the warranty.

Congrats,
JT


I don't personally have the Bullydog programmer (plan to soon), however have
two buddies that do. They are both getting a 1 to 2.5 mpg better depending
on what settings they are using. Hang a 12K lb. 5th wheel off the back with
two quads, gear, fuel, etc.. and you are well over 20K rolling down the
road. Some extra ponies make mountain passes much easier.

I have no interest in racing or having the fastest truck, I would only add
this option for pulling performance and fuel economy. Unfortunately my bride
drive the thing 99% of the time anyway. I drive a 35 mpg 4 banger due to my
100 mi. round trip commute!

Larry, a pretty good write up on the Bullydog PMT...
http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/ar....jsp?id=438382

YMMV,
JT

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:36:55 -0700, "JT" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 07:50:04 -0700, "JT"
wrote:


"Larry L" wrote in message
...
In an effort to do our little bit to get the economy going we bought a
new
truck today.

The old one lasted 18++ years, 276,585 miles and is actually still going
strong although it's well past beat up and ugly

The new one is a Dodge 4 door short bed 4X4 with the Cummins diesel, it
has truly awesome power and I can't wait to hook up my trailer and head
over the pass.

However,

I feel very poor now :-(


Nice!

I'm guessing you got an amazing deal given the economic situation? They
have
some great offerings in the area, but I can't get my bride on board for a
new one although my '04 still purrs like a kitten.

As RD mentioned, the chips/programmers are really nice and will add major
hp
and additional fuel economy.

Not to be disagreeable, but no programmer that I'm aware of can add hp
_AND_
additional fuel economy - many can do either, but it's _OR_.

And FWIW, programming for even more HP in an '04, unless you're pulling a
D9 up
mountains or something, is wasting fuel and potential engine life (and
wearing
other drivetrain components unnecessarily, too). The "MORE HP!!!" craze
has hit
everything - that's why you still see older boats with low HP tuning on 6-
and
12-71's with about a bazillion hours still running strong and guys who
constantly bury the balls on their hopped-up 2000's having to have
rebuilds
after about 30 hours...OK, so not really just 30 hours, but...

TC,
R

TC,
R
With the programmers (like Bullydog) you can
really dial these motors. The only concern would be the potential of
voiding
the warranty.

Congrats,
JT


I don't personally have the Bullydog programmer (plan to soon), however have
two buddies that do. They are both getting a 1 to 2.5 mpg better depending
on what settings they are using. Hang a 12K lb. 5th wheel off the back with
two quads, gear, fuel, etc.. and you are well over 20K rolling down the
road. Some extra ponies make mountain passes much easier.

I have no interest in racing or having the fastest truck, I would only add
this option for pulling performance and fuel economy. Unfortunately my bride
drive the thing 99% of the time anyway. I drive a 35 mpg 4 banger due to my
100 mi. round trip commute!

Larry, a pretty good write up on the Bullydog PMT...
http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/ar....jsp?id=438382

I'd say that should tell anyone and everyone all they need to know about
BullyDog programmers...

TC,
R
....of course, the kind of folks that drive trucks like the one pictured will
take one thing from it, and adults...well, the exact opposite...

YMMV,
JT