OT It could be, it might be, it is !!!

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 11:26:48 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:

On Apr 17, 4:57*pm, wrote:

Kool Richard. YOU have zip evidence and ZIP experiences or concrete
observations to share, but like a typical whackjob with a little
polish you pretend that your lighter-than-air-show trounces anyone
else's real information. Typical bubble Baby.

Like I said . . . your fact-free bull**** allows ye of the Hyena
persuasion to let their pieholes drip with all the venom they have
reserved for the American middle class and the outcome of an election
that they could not buy. Thats what this is about, plain and simple.
Sore losers who hate America. Real constructive ah huh. Real fanatical
is more like it.

I still think you got infected somehow with all that subversive neo-
fascist deconstructionist crap that was so much the rage at Yale when
you were a student there. Does your tinfoil hat have "Yale" written on
it?

Here's the deal - until you can act like a ****ing adult and address the points
under discussion, you are, AFAIAC, Daffy Duck - if you want to be serious, then
act it, if not, I'll point out the fact that you wear flowered smocks to paint
pictures of monkeys...

HTH, but if it doesn't, well, there you are,
R

Dave

On Apr 18, 8:46*pm, wrote:

Here's the deal - until you can act like a ****ing adult and address the points
under discussion, you are, AFAIAC, Daffy Duck - if you want to be serious, then
act it, if not, I'll point out the fact that you wear flowered smocks to paint
pictures of monkeys...

HTH, but if it doesn't, well, there you are,
R


No Richard here's the deal. You are a radical extremist in a cleaned
up package. Your "points" are the same daily dose of rightwing crap
that every member of the Hyena wing of Whack-job Incorporated puts
out. Sometimes you should use quotes. You don't get to play adult
now.

Your vitriol is just a modestly more polished version of Beanman's
crap. A day later when most of whatever you said turns out to be from
your bottomless sack of secret sauce nonsense, you move position 2
degrees and make up more ****. You deliver ****, you get **** back.
That's how things work outside the bubble.

You want to be the lead BOO**** queen, you get to wear the dress. You
think its cute to rank on working people? You want to be the radical
wingnut, and still get treated as a reasonable person? It don't work
that way lad.

Dave

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:26:52 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:

On Apr 18, 8:46*pm, wrote:

Here's the deal - until you can act like a ****ing adult and address the points
under discussion, you are, AFAIAC, Daffy Duck - if you want to be serious, then
act it, if not, I'll point out the fact that you wear flowered smocks to paint
pictures of monkeys...

HTH, but if it doesn't, well, there you are,
R


No Richard here's the deal. You are a radical extremist in a cleaned
up package. Your "points" are the same daily dose of rightwing crap
that every member of the Hyena wing of Whack-job Incorporated puts
out. Sometimes you should use quotes. You don't get to play adult
now.

Your vitriol is just a modestly more polished version of Beanman's
crap. A day later when most of whatever you said turns out to be from
your bottomless sack of secret sauce nonsense, you move position 2
degrees and make up more ****. You deliver ****, you get **** back.
That's how things work outside the bubble.

You want to be the lead BOO**** queen, you get to wear the dress. You
think its cute to rank on working people? You want to be the radical
wingnut, and still get treated as a reasonable person? It don't work
that way lad.

Dave

Nope - you're just Daffy Duck. You either don't, can't, or won't read, you
simply react to what you presume is said. I never "ranked" on "working people"
and if you think stating the fact that some people simply are not suited to
being anything more than "labor" (such as a "burger-flipper") is somehow
"radical extremism," you are among those people not suited to rational thought
or discussion.

HTH,
R

wrote:
... You either don't, can't, or won't read, you
simply react to what you presume is said. I never "ranked" on "working people"
and if you think stating the fact that some people simply are not suited to
being anything more than "labor" (such as a "burger-flipper") is somehow
"radical extremism," you are among those people not suited to rational thought
or discussion.

You either don't, can't or won't read your own posts to roff.
Nobody has to "presume" that you said of "burger flippers":

"For some, *even many*, that type of job is all they are, or
*ever will be*, suited to do." [emphasis added]

If that's not ranking on the American working class it'll sure
as hell do for now. The American worker churned out more tanks,
jeeps, airplanes, battleships and aircraft carriers than any
other country on earth during WWII. Almost all state of the art
manufacturing jobs at the time. Given education, opportunity
and a fair wage the American worker is the equal of any worker
on the planet.

Your obvious contempt for the American worker isn't what I would
call "radical extremism", I'd call it mainline Republican ignorance
and arrogance.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 09:16:05 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
... You either don't, can't, or won't read, you
simply react to what you presume is said. I never "ranked" on "working people"
and if you think stating the fact that some people simply are not suited to
being anything more than "labor" (such as a "burger-flipper") is somehow
"radical extremism," you are among those people not suited to rational thought
or discussion.

You either don't, can't or won't read your own posts to roff.
Nobody has to "presume" that you said of "burger flippers":

"For some, *even many*, that type of job is all they are, or
*ever will be*, suited to do." [emphasis added]

Um, OK - which of the words is confusing you...moreso than words normally seem
to confuse you...?

If that's not ranking on the American working class it'll sure
as hell do for now.

Um, OK - IOW, if it doesn't _actually_ say what you say it says, you'll just
pretend it says it _and_ twist it or take it out of context, too...(emphasis
added)...

The American worker churned out more tanks,
jeeps, airplanes, battleships and aircraft carriers than any
other country on earth during WWII. Almost all state of the art
manufacturing jobs at the time. Given education, opportunity
and a fair wage the American worker is the equal of any worker
on the planet.

OK, fair enough. That means that an assembly line worker in the US should be
making about $25-30K a year today, and a laborer about 1/2 to 2/3s of that, or
12.5K to 20K a year, with few, if any benefits (and since you're comparing them
to all workers on the planet - assuming you mean Earth and not your home planet
of Headupuranus - they ought to be able to live pretty darned well on about half
that). They should live in a small home (and if she do choose to buy, they must
have at least 10% down, and if they lose the house, tough) or apartment without
AC or other "luxuries," own, at most, one car, eat out on _rare_ occasions,
etc., etc. In fact, if "workers" would live the way their 1940s counterparts
did, the whole system might be better off (and if those at the top of the chain
did, as well).

Your obvious contempt for the American worker

See above...and below...

isn't what I would
call "radical extremism", I'd call it mainline Republican ignorance
and arrogance.

Well, sure - you call everything that makes sense and disproves all of your
guilty white liberal ideas "Republican ignorance"...

HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
You either don't, can't or won't read your own posts to roff.
Nobody has to "presume" that you said of "burger flippers":

"For some, *even many*, that type of job is all they are, or
*ever will be*, suited to do." [emphasis added]

Um, OK - which of the words is confusing you...moreso than words normally seem
to confuse you...?
If that's not ranking on the American working class it'll sure
as hell do for now.

Um, OK - IOW, if it doesn't _actually_ say what you say it says, you'll just
pretend it says it _and_ twist it or take it out of context, too...(emphasis
added)...

Well, I think it says many American workers are suited only for
working in a fast food joint and further, that is all they will
ever be suited to do. If that's not what it means you can't
write worth a ****. Don't blame the reader for your lack of
writing skills.

The American worker churned out more tanks,
jeeps, airplanes, battleships and aircraft carriers than any
other country on earth during WWII. Almost all state of the art
manufacturing jobs at the time. Given education, opportunity
and a fair wage the American worker is the equal of any worker
on the planet.

OK, fair enough. That means that an assembly line worker in the US should be
making about $25-30K a year today, and a laborer about 1/2 to 2/3s of that, or
12.5K to 20K a year, with few, if any benefits (and since you're comparing them
to all workers on the planet - assuming you mean Earth and not your home planet
of Headupuranus - they ought to be able to live pretty darned well on about half
that). They should live in a small home (and if she do choose to buy, they must
have at least 10% down, and if they lose the house, tough) or apartment without
AC or other "luxuries," own, at most, one car, eat out on _rare_ occasions,
etc., etc. In fact, if "workers" would live the way their 1940s counterparts
did, the whole system might be better off (and if those at the top of the chain
did, as well).

Non sequitur.

First you claim many American workers are suitable only for
flipping burgers and not capable of working an assembly line
or being a laborer. Now you want to argue about standards of
living.


Your obvious contempt for the American worker

See above...and below...

isn't what I would
call "radical extremism", I'd call it mainline Republican ignorance
and arrogance.

Well, sure - you call everything that makes sense and disproves all of your
guilty white liberal ideas "Republican ignorance"...

Uh huh.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:16:27 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
You either don't, can't or won't read your own posts to roff.
Nobody has to "presume" that you said of "burger flippers":

"For some, *even many*, that type of job is all they are, or
*ever will be*, suited to do." [emphasis added]

Um, OK - which of the words is confusing you...moreso than words normally seem
to confuse you...?
If that's not ranking on the American working class it'll sure
as hell do for now.

Um, OK - IOW, if it doesn't _actually_ say what you say it says, you'll just
pretend it says it _and_ twist it or take it out of context, too...(emphasis
added)...

Well, I think it says many American workers are suited only for
working in a fast food joint and further, that is all they will
ever be suited to do.

Except for the "American" and the use of "many" instead of "some, even many,"
that's exactly what it says. And I have no problem with the addition of
"American," whether it actually means "American" or simply those in the US,
because it is true of the world population - some folks, even many, are simply
not suited to be or capable of more than basically unskilled labor, be it
"flipping burgers," dishing up curries, pushing a dim sum cart, putting fish and
chips on newspaper, or whatever. It says nothing about the entire populace of
"America," the US or the world. Moreover, I clearly said that others are suited
to other levels of work, skilled and unskilled. If it is your position that
every single person in the US is suited to be a neurosurgeon (or a skilled labor
"machine" of superhuman production), I'd offer that someone suited only to
flipping burgers has been poking around in your skull...actually, I'd offer that
even if it isn't your position...

If that's not what it means you can't
write worth a ****. Don't blame the reader for your lack of
writing skills.

I don't blame "the reader" for anything...hell, I don't even "blame" you for
your lack of comprehension skills...

The American worker churned out more tanks,
jeeps, airplanes, battleships and aircraft carriers than any
other country on earth during WWII. Almost all state of the art
manufacturing jobs at the time. Given education, opportunity
and a fair wage the American worker is the equal of any worker
on the planet.

OK, fair enough. That means that an assembly line worker in the US should be
making about $25-30K a year today, and a laborer about 1/2 to 2/3s of that, or
12.5K to 20K a year, with few, if any benefits (and since you're comparing them
to all workers on the planet - assuming you mean Earth and not your home planet
of Headupuranus - they ought to be able to live pretty darned well on about half
that). They should live in a small home (and if she do choose to buy, they must
have at least 10% down, and if they lose the house, tough) or apartment without
AC or other "luxuries," own, at most, one car, eat out on _rare_ occasions,
etc., etc. In fact, if "workers" would live the way their 1940s counterparts
did, the whole system might be better off (and if those at the top of the chain
did, as well).

Non sequitur.

Er, no. You used US workers during WW2 as an example, much of which was
unskilled or semi-skilled work. I am simply pointing out that what you, and
many such US workers, want today is simply ridiculous by historical standards,
even recent history, and that recent history in the US shows that people can
live perfectly decent, happy lives on much less than that to which you and
modern workers feel they are automatically entitled.

First you claim many American workers are suitable only for
flipping burgers and not capable of working an assembly line
or being a laborer.

IMO, "flipping burgers" is used as a catch-all term for simple, unskilled labor,
so sure, someone capable of flipping burgers is also capable of dropping a
basket of fries into grease and hitting a timer button or, if physically
capable, myriad other such types of "unskilled labor." But the fact remains
that some, even many, simply aren't suited to or capable of more.

Now you want to argue about standards of
living.


Your obvious contempt for the American worker

See above...and below...

isn't what I would
call "radical extremism", I'd call it mainline Republican ignorance
and arrogance.

Well, sure - you call everything that makes sense and disproves all of your
guilty white liberal ideas "Republican ignorance"...

Uh huh.

Glad you agree...

HTH,
R

On Apr 19, 8:34*am, wrote:
Snippy snip snip

Let's see; where to start. . .

1. At one time or another you've argued against any system that would
make health care affordable and available to all the American
families, even while the problems in the current system helped destroy
American companies, jobs, and families.

2. You've argued against the social safety net, (social security,
unemployment compensation, injured worker's compensation) that is paid
for by the working and middle-class of this country in a system of
self insurance.

3. You've argued against the housing support and mortgage support
systems that enabled average people, and particularly veterans to
purchase and own their own homes, and give them an economic stake in
the private economy.

4. You've argued the petty missteps of hard won civil rights progress
that took this country from a war torn slave holding country, to a
relatively peaceful multi racial society in a little more than a
century.

5. You've argued against the right of public citizens to impose limits
on the nature of the exploitation of energy and mineral resources and
public lands held for the common benefit of the American people.

6. You've argued against workers rights to organize, collectively
bargain and freely withhold their labor.

7. And recently the list goes on to include defending lender predation
and consumer fraud, and restriction of educational opportunity.

Does anybody see a pattern here? I do. Its the same pattern that some
deeply anti-democratic, deeply indoctrinated folks have pushed since
the beginning of the country. Its the classic pattern of extremists
like the Coors family, who, despite the opportunities and wealth they
have been afforded by their work and the people of the United States,
have viciously opposed virtually EVERY step of social, economic and
racial progress made by the American people. The American people have
the right, both individually and collectively, to seek to improve
their lives. That is not communism, thats democracy.

Sorry but your thinly shrouded advocacy of peonage, and primitive
19Th century eugenics as organizing principals for the United States
does tend to **** off people who have lived at least some of their
lives outside the bubble. To pretend that your extremist views
constitute a respectable political viewpoint is a stretch.

Dave
And Rick, IMHO if you think most Republicans hold your beliefs you are
mistaken.

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 10:59:12 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:

On Apr 19, 8:34*am, wrote:
Snippy snip snip

Let's see; where to start. . .

1. At one time or another you've argued against any system that would
make health care affordable and available to all the American
families, even while the problems in the current system helped destroy
American companies, jobs, and families.

No, I haven't.

2. You've argued against the social safety net, (social security,
unemployment compensation, injured worker's compensation) that is paid
for by the working and middle-class of this country in a system of
self insurance.

No, I haven't.

3. You've argued against the housing support and mortgage support
systems that enabled average people, and particularly veterans to
purchase and own their own homes, and give them an economic stake in
the private economy.

No, I haven't.

4. You've argued the petty missteps of hard won civil rights progress
that took this country from a war torn slave holding country, to a
relatively peaceful multi racial society in a little more than a
century.

Some of them, yes.

5. You've argued against the right of public citizens to impose limits
on the nature of the exploitation of energy and mineral resources and
public lands held for the common benefit of the American people.

No, I haven't.

6. You've argued against workers rights to organize, collectively
bargain and freely withhold their labor.

Not exactly, no.

7. And recently the list goes on to include defending lender predation
and consumer fraud, and restriction of educational opportunity.

No, I haven't.

Does anybody see a pattern here?

Yes, I do - you're rarely correct on what you assume to be my position on most
things.

I do.

I didn't doubt it in the least.

Its the same pattern that some
deeply anti-democratic, deeply indoctrinated folks have pushed since
the beginning of the country. Its the classic pattern of extremists
like the Coors family, who, despite the opportunities and wealth they
have been afforded by their work and the people of the United States,
have viciously opposed virtually EVERY step of social, economic and
racial progress made by the American people.

The American people have the right, both individually and collectively, to seek to improve
their lives.

Which is generally what I've always said, except I've said that all people,
"American" or otherwise, have that right.

That is not communism, thats democracy.

Actually, it's neither.

Sorry but your thinly shrouded advocacy of peonage, and primitive
19Th century eugenics as organizing principals for the United States
does tend to **** off people who have lived at least some of their
lives outside the bubble. To pretend that your extremist views
constitute a respectable political viewpoint is a stretch.

Sorry, but your blatantly visible Daffy Duckness does nothing but amuse me -
what it does for or to others, you'll have to ask them.

Dave

And Rick, IMHO if you think most Republicans hold your beliefs you are
mistaken.

Unlike you, I make no presumption to know what beliefs "most Republicans" hold,
so I don't further presume to know whether their beliefs mirror my own. I do
know that I am not a Republican nor do I consider myself one, and based upon
what I do know of stated "Republican beliefs," I suspect that while there is
some commonality, there are also major differences. But neither you or I have
any way to know.

HTH,
R

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
The American worker churned out more tanks,
jeeps, airplanes, battleships and aircraft carriers than any
other country on earth during WWII.

that was two generations ago, and last I checked, our supply of tanks, jeeps
and aircraft carriers is pretty good.
Airplanes, we still make, but I think battleships are in less demand. Still,
with the proper national emphasis on education, we might get back to a
competetive position.
Tom