why?

On Apr 24, 2:26*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
MajorOz wrote:
I hesitate to bring this up, figgering that there will be lots of
silly responses, but, I swear, they are serious questions that have
been haunting me for some time. ...

If you're fishing the Arkansas tailwaters beneath Bull Shoals and
Norfork (and that's what it sounds like to me), fuhgedaboudit. You
ain't never gonna have real trout fishing there because there ain't
any real trout there. Tailwater fishing is, by definition, phony
baloney trout fishing. I spent almost six years thinking there must
be a solution before I gave up. You may as well go to Montauk or
Bennett Springs and flail the water with Purina trout chow "wooly
buggers".

The only halfway decent, semi-approaching, real trout fishing in
Missouri/Arkansas is on the Missouri Blue Ribbon streams. Several
of us on roff have fished the Eleven Point between Greers and
Turner Mill. You should be able to Google up the TRs.

Thank you. Haven't tried the Eleven Point, but mean to, soon. And
you are correct. NorthFork, below Norfolk Dam is where most of the
frustration takes place -- and Tanneycomo. The only place I have
found the even comes close to the "old stuff" is way below Montauk.

But I will keep looking.

And I cry each time I go back to the mountains. The South Platte has
been totally *******ized into one huge "pay lake". Even some of my
old Wyoming rivers are now roped off. I guard, to the death, those
places, like the Snowys and Blues, the still feel classic.

cheers

oz, who had trouble wading/casting and breathing at the same time at
10K+ ft last Aug near Independence Pass.

On Apr 24, 3:09*pm, MajorOz wrote:
On Apr 24, 2:26*pm, Ken Fortenberry



wrote:
MajorOz wrote:
I hesitate to bring this up, figgering that there will be lots of
silly responses, but, I swear, they are serious questions that have
been haunting me for some time. ...

If you're fishing the Arkansas tailwaters beneath Bull Shoals and
Norfork (and that's what it sounds like to me), fuhgedaboudit. You
ain't never gonna have real trout fishing there because there ain't
any real trout there. Tailwater fishing is, by definition, phony
baloney trout fishing. I spent almost six years thinking there must
be a solution before I gave up. You may as well go to Montauk or
Bennett Springs and flail the water with Purina trout chow "wooly
buggers".

The only halfway decent, semi-approaching, real trout fishing in
Missouri/Arkansas is on the Missouri Blue Ribbon streams. Several
of us on roff have fished the Eleven Point between Greers and
Turner Mill. You should be able to Google up the TRs.

Thank you. *Haven't tried the Eleven Point, but mean to, soon. * And
you are correct. *NorthFork, below Norfolk Dam is where most of the
frustration takes place -- and Tanneycomo. * The only place I have
found the even comes close to the "old stuff" is way below Montauk.

But I will keep looking.

And I cry each time I go back to the mountains. *The South Platte has
been totally *******ized into one huge "pay lake". * Even some of my
old Wyoming rivers are now roped off. *I guard, to the death, those
places, like the Snowys and Blues, the still feel classic.

cheers

oz, who had trouble wading/casting and breathing at the same time at
10K+ ft last Aug near Independence Pass.

There are many streams in Missouri that offer the kind of fishing you
are looking for. You will not often catch big fish and truthfully,
you will spend a lot of time experimenting on these streams before you
experience a great deal of success. I don't know where you are in MO
or AR, but a few suggestions are Blue Springs Creek, Little Piney
Creek, Capps Creek, and Crane Creek. The Eleven Point is fine and so
are parts of the Current and Meramec.

I have much in common with your background...I was born in CO, raised
in Alaska, and now reside in MO as my wife is from this area. Between
the time we left Alaska and moved to Missouri, we spent 6 years just
west of Steamboat Springs.

We won't find western stream fly fishing around here, but we can still
come pretty close. I have some basic info on these places I mentioned
and some others at http://family-outdoors.com/Missouri_Trout_Fishing.html

"MajorOz" wrote in message
...
On Apr 24, 2:26 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
MajorOz wrote:
I hesitate to bring this up, figgering that there will be lots of
silly responses, but, I swear, they are serious questions that have
been haunting me for some time. ...

If you're fishing the Arkansas tailwaters beneath Bull Shoals and
Norfork (and that's what it sounds like to me), fuhgedaboudit. You
ain't never gonna have real trout fishing there because there ain't
any real trout there. Tailwater fishing is, by definition, phony
baloney trout fishing. I spent almost six years thinking there must
be a solution before I gave up. You may as well go to Montauk or
Bennett Springs and flail the water with Purina trout chow "wooly
buggers".

The only halfway decent, semi-approaching, real trout fishing in
Missouri/Arkansas is on the Missouri Blue Ribbon streams. Several
of us on roff have fished the Eleven Point between Greers and
Turner Mill. You should be able to Google up the TRs.

Thank you. Haven't tried the Eleven Point, but mean to, soon. And
you are correct. NorthFork, below Norfolk Dam is where most of the
frustration takes place -- and Tanneycomo. The only place I have
found the even comes close to the "old stuff" is way below Montauk.

But I will keep looking.

And I cry each time I go back to the mountains. The South Platte has
been totally *******ized into one huge "pay lake". Even some of my
old Wyoming rivers are now roped off. I guard, to the death, those
places, like the Snowys and Blues, the still feel classic.

cheers

oz, who had trouble wading/casting and breathing at the same time at
10K+ ft last Aug near Independence Pass.

If you get an answer that works post it. Same thing on the Pit River out of
Burney, CA. I have been in the artificial only areas, and those who not the
law, are fishing with worms and powerbait, racking up the fish. I look at
the fish zooming around below the Pit power houses, and see them slurping up
something, but hit a fly? Noooooo. Even a tiny size fly I can hardly get
tied on anymore. Nooooo.

MajorOz wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
MajorOz wrote:
I hesitate to bring this up, figgering that there will be lots of
silly responses, but, I swear, they are serious questions that have
been haunting me for some time. ...
If you're fishing the Arkansas tailwaters beneath Bull Shoals and
Norfork (and that's what it sounds like to me), fuhgedaboudit. You
ain't never gonna have real trout fishing there because there ain't
any real trout there. Tailwater fishing is, by definition, phony
baloney trout fishing. I spent almost six years thinking there must
be a solution before I gave up. You may as well go to Montauk or
Bennett Springs and flail the water with Purina trout chow "wooly
buggers".

The only halfway decent, semi-approaching, real trout fishing in
Missouri/Arkansas is on the Missouri Blue Ribbon streams. Several
of us on roff have fished the Eleven Point between Greers and
Turner Mill. You should be able to Google up the TRs.

Thank you. Haven't tried the Eleven Point, but mean to, soon. And
you are correct. NorthFork, below Norfolk Dam is where most of the
frustration takes place -- and Tanneycomo. ...

When I fished below Norfork it was always in the fall. I noticed
that the best guides were out of the Orvis shop in Springfield, Mo.
To a man they always had their clients fishing sculpins. And they
were the most productive folks on the stream, so far as I could
tell.

I've fished seven of the nine Missouri Blue Ribbon streams and
they're better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick but my
advice is, Go North. The driftless area of Wisconsin isn't that
far away and it's well worth the drive for native, but small,
brookies. You do know that trout are not indigenous to Missouri
and that wherever you fish you're fishing for stockers ? Not
that there's anything wrong with that ...

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Apr 24, 5:37*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
MajorOz wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
MajorOz wrote:
I hesitate to bring this up, figgering that there will be lots of
silly responses, but, I swear, they are serious questions that have
been haunting me for some time. ...
If you're fishing the Arkansas tailwaters beneath Bull Shoals and
Norfork (and that's what it sounds like to me), fuhgedaboudit. You
ain't never gonna have real trout fishing there because there ain't
any real trout there. Tailwater fishing is, by definition, phony
baloney trout fishing. I spent almost six years thinking there must
be a solution before I gave up. You may as well go to Montauk or
Bennett Springs and flail the water with Purina trout chow "wooly
buggers".

The only halfway decent, semi-approaching, real trout fishing in
Missouri/Arkansas is on the Missouri Blue Ribbon streams. Several
of us on roff have fished the Eleven Point between Greers and
Turner Mill. You should be able to Google up the TRs.

Thank you. *Haven't tried the Eleven Point, but mean to, soon. * And
you are correct. *NorthFork, below Norfolk Dam is where most of the
frustration takes place -- and Tanneycomo. ...

When I fished below Norfork it was always in the fall. I noticed
that the best guides were out of the Orvis shop in Springfield, Mo.
To a man they always had their clients fishing sculpins. And they
were the most productive folks on the stream, so far as I could
tell.

I've fished seven of the nine Missouri Blue Ribbon streams and
they're better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick but my
advice is, Go North. The driftless area of Wisconsin isn't that
far away and it's well worth the drive for native, but small,
brookies. You do know that trout are not indigenous to Missouri
and that wherever you fish you're fishing for stockers ? Not
that there's anything wrong with that ...

--
Ken Fortenberry

Sure, a drive to the Driftless Area of Wisconsin is worthwhile, but I
take small issue with referring to all the trout in Missouri as
stockers. Many are indeed wild though of course none are native.
Trout were introduced to Missouri in the 1800's. Many of the streams
I mentioned in the earlier post can and do carry very healthy wild
trout populations. You can and likely will find fulfillment on some of
these waters.

alaskaguy wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I've fished seven of the nine Missouri Blue Ribbon streams and
they're better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick but my
advice is, Go North. The driftless area of Wisconsin isn't that
far away and it's well worth the drive for native, but small,
brookies. You do know that trout are not indigenous to Missouri
and that wherever you fish you're fishing for stockers ? Not
that there's anything wrong with that ...

Sure, a drive to the Driftless Area of Wisconsin is worthwhile, but I
take small issue with referring to all the trout in Missouri as
stockers. Many are indeed wild though of course none are native.
Trout were introduced to Missouri in the 1800's. Many of the streams
I mentioned in the earlier post can and do carry very healthy wild
trout populations. You can and likely will find fulfillment on some of
these waters.

A dwindling few of the Missouri trout are wild. When I fished the
Eleven Point I was under the impression that it had never been
stocked after the first dumping from the train trestle in the 1880's.
I was mistaken. Missouri started "supplemental stocking" on the
Eleven Point and most of the other Blue Ribbon streams several years
ago. There are a few, very few, wild trout left in Missouri. But hey,
different strokes for different folks. I grew up in E. St. Louis and
caught my first trout in Missouri. I was the one who got hooked and
I've fished most of the trout streams in the state at one time or
another. I just prefer to fish elsewhere these days. YMMV.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Apr 24, 6:22*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
alaskaguy wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I've fished seven of the nine Missouri Blue Ribbon streams and
they're better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick but my
advice is, Go North. The driftless area of Wisconsin isn't that
far away and it's well worth the drive for native, but small,
brookies. You do know that trout are not indigenous to Missouri
and that wherever you fish you're fishing for stockers ? Not
that there's anything wrong with that ...

Sure, a drive to the Driftless Area of Wisconsin is worthwhile, but I
take small issue with referring to all the trout in Missouri as
stockers. *Many are indeed wild though of course none are native.
Trout were introduced to Missouri in the 1800's. *Many of the streams
I mentioned in the earlier post can and do carry very healthy wild
trout populations. You can and likely will find fulfillment on some of
these waters.

A dwindling few of the Missouri trout are wild. When I fished the
Eleven Point I was under the impression that it had never been
stocked after the first dumping from the train trestle in the 1880's.
I was mistaken. Missouri started "supplemental stocking" on the
Eleven Point and most of the other Blue Ribbon streams several years
ago. There are a few, very few, wild trout left in Missouri. But hey,
different strokes for different folks. I grew up in E. St. Louis and
caught my first trout in Missouri. I was the one who got hooked and
I've fished *most of the trout streams in the state at one time or
another. I just prefer to fish elsewhere these days. YMMV.

--
Ken Fortenberry

The North Fork of the White has not been stocked with rainbows since
1964. It is true that many other streams do receive stocking. I
don't know...it doesn't bother me really. Of course there's other
places I'd rather fish, but there's something to be said for looking
at the positives of the streams where you can fish consistently.

Most folks would still consider streams like the West Branch of the
Ausable quality fishing and I dare say a phenomenal percent of the
trout are "stockers." Very few streams anymore can sustain the level
of pressure they receive without stocking. Even streams like the
North Tongue River in the Bighorns receives stocking. It's just a
fact of life in most North American streams. Trappers Lake in the
Flattops of Western Colorado was stocked with 45,000 Colorado River
cutthroats per year between 2003 and 2007. This has been one of my
favorite spots and my view is no different based on this knowledge.

On 24-Apr-2009, alaskaguy wrote:

Most folks would still consider streams like the West Branch of the
Ausable quality fishing and I dare say a phenomenal percent of the
trout are "stockers." Very few streams anymore can sustain the level
of pressure they receive without stocking. Even streams like the
North Tongue River in the Bighorns receives stocking. It's just a
fact of life in most North American streams. Trappers Lake in the
Flattops of Western Colorado was stocked with 45,000 Colorado River
cutthroats per year between 2003 and 2007. This has been one of my
favorite spots and my view is no different based on this knowledge.

Man Thanks to something - the winds of chance, Allah , Eliahu
, Jesus even Jim Jones,perhaps thanks to Muhammed Ali but I can still get
to some places that are not.

Fred