Some fishing, some farming

On Sep 24, 8:04*pm, Giles wrote:
On Sep 24, 1:05*pm, DaveS wrote:

Thanx.

You're welxome.

I assume you've done some tree planting on this property; what
has worked best in keeping the critters from killing your hardwood
saplings? Between the rodents and the deer, for the ponderosa Im
facing having to go larger sizes, plastic net a foot or so up the stem
and then a wire cage. That really limits the number I can do each
year. Ideas?

Pratically speaking, there are exactly two effective methods for
dealing with deer: 1. *shoot them on sight, 2. *fencing, a minimum of
8 ft. high. *In other words, an 8 ft. (there is no practical maximum
height outside the realm of theoretical engineering.....but why go
into all that esoteric ****, anyway.....right?) *fence is about it. *I
mean, shooting WORKS.....but the neighbors and the DNR get all testy
and ****, ainna? *Rodents are another matter. *Aside from squirrels
(which have been dealt with elsewhere.....or are being dealt with,
anyway) bio- or helio- or oxy-degradable cones, about eighteen inches
tall and set flush with the ground.....with no discernable
gaps.....have worked very well. *Actually, they really don't have to
be degradable at all. *That's just a nice feature if your too old and
decrepit or lazy to go out and retrieve them every few years.

The most recent planting, "the butternut orchard" (which, inevitably,
also contains some chestnut hybrids and, not so inevitably, also a
goodly number of volunteer hazels) comprises about 10 acres and is
surrounded by a fence of 1 inch mesh cheap plastic **** of some
sort......deer don't know their own strength. *The squirrels leave
this pretty much alone because there is, thus far, nothing much in
there to interest them. *Oh, there are a few butternuts (grafting is
cool.....you got a 1 year old tree that thinks it's five or nine and
thus puts out nuts on branches 12 to 15 inches above ground level),
but the whole orchard is surrounded by much older plantings, as well
as "wild forest" that hasn't been touched.....yet. *Plenty of
distractions for tree rats.

Somewhat counter-intuitively, perhaps, the greatest vertebrate pest at
this stage of the game is.....moles. *They are meat eaters, if memory
serves, but their incessant tunneling in pursuit of worms and other
icky fare is highly disruptive to juvenile root systems. *They kill a
lot of seedlings and whips. *Not much to be done about it, as far as I
know, except to stomp on the tunnels wherever and whenever found, and
hope there's a mole head somewhere under the heel.

The bottom line is that you learn to live with, or you die with, your
limitations.

g.
frost, now, THAT's a whole 'nother problem.

On the Fencing thing. . . .

On my Western Wa apple trees I have to install a stout cage around
each tree, and prune off all lower branches until the trees are tall
enough so the deer have to rear up to reach the tender new growth on
the branches. When i don't do this, the deer manage the trees for
brouse. I use welded wire about 6', tied to a driven metal fence post.
The bucks will also kill new trees by honing their horns on the stems
like an old fashioned razor stroup. *******s.

For gardens or diverting deer travel patterns, the most effective
fence Ive found is a 6' high, double fence line, about 5 to 8 foot
apart. The deer don't seem to want to jump into a confined space. This
also seems to apply to SOs rose garden, which is long and narrow with
welded stock panels used as fence. They brouse the fence line but
won't jump in.

Never had any luck with cayenne, coyote or cougar ****, etc.

Dave

On 25-Sep-2009, DaveS wrote:

Never had any luck with cayenne, coyote or cougar ****, etc.

Dave

We have had luck w fences (of course) and pepper mixed w vinegar around our
trees, shrubs, garden , flowers and other plants we do not want eaten
In the evening (we have to keep our standard poodle in as she chases deer)
there are about 100-200 deer in our fields.
Its bow season and rifle soon but we allow NO hunting on our property

Fred

On Sep 25, 12:27*pm, DaveS wrote:


On the Fencing thing. . . .

On my Western Wa apple trees I have to install a stout cage around
each tree, and prune off all lower branches until the trees are tall
enough so the deer have to rear up to reach the tender new growth on
the branches. When i don't do this, the deer manage the trees for
brouse. I use welded wire about 6', tied to a driven metal fence post.

Whether to cage individual trees or fence the whole orchard is a
numbers game. If you've got half a dozen trees, cage them. If you
you've got twenty acres of dense planting, fence the whole thing.

The bucks will also kill new trees by honing their horns on the stems
like an old fashioned razor stroup. *******s.

I've talked to someone recently who insists that for some reason the
bucks prefer butternut over all others. He theorizes that something
in the bark of these trees provides the deer with relief from
bleeding, itching, or who knows what. I remain skeptical. If they do
indeed prefer butternut to other trees, I'm inclined to think that
maybe they think it smells good or something. After all, what do the
deer do for styptics in areas where no butternut grows (which is
increasingly becoming just about everywhere)?

For gardens or diverting deer travel patterns, the most effective
fence Ive found is a 6' high, double fence line, about 5 to 8 foot
apart. The deer don't seem to want to jump into a confined space.

Make it couple of feet higher and they won't jump it.....even without
the inner layer. Cheaper, space saving, and just as effective.

This
also seems to apply to SOs rose garden, which is long and narrow with
welded stock panels used as fence. They brouse the fence line but
won't jump in.

The confined space is undoubtedly a factor, but so is food
preference. Give them something they like better than roses on the
outside and they've got no good reason to come inside.

Never had any luck with cayenne, coyote or cougar ****, etc.

I very much doubt that coyotes present enough of a threat to deer to
act as a deterent. They coexist in significant numbers around here
and pretty much everywhere else I've been. The cougar **** should be
very effective......if fresh. Which is to say that a resident cougar
would keep the deer away.....but they're going to catch on to stale,
bottled **** pretty quickly. I have no idea of what deer think of
cayenne, but I'm pretty sure there isn't enough of it in the world to
make it cheap enough to keep everything on a large plot of land
effectively dosed. Besides, fencing works.....and you don't have to
rebuild after every rainfall or breeze.

giles