Q: North America in Jul-Aug

On 2009-11-02 14:23:48 -0500, angler said:

On 31 Okt, 16:31, Jarmo Hurri wrote:
Greetings!

Next year is a special occasion
snip
Jarmo Hurri


It feels a loooong time since I last posted on ROFF, but now I find it
hard to resist.
I can't spend as much time travelling around north America as Jarmo
and his friends, and I already have some fishing trips for 2010
planned (Jarmo mentioned one in Sweden), but I think it is about time
I did try out the fishing in the western part of the US. I've already
mentioned this to a couple of friends on another forum (Vaughan Hurry
among them), and it met with some interest.
What I would like is the opportunity to meet some of the guys present
when I visited the Penns clave and/or some of the people on this
forum, so here's a question from me: Wasn't there a western clave at
some point? What happened to it, or does it still occur?
Anyway, even if there isn't a western clave any longer, I would still
hope to do some fishing with people I've talked to/discussed with
rather than me and my friends trying the area out on our own. So what
are the chances of meeting up with some of you guys to do some
fishing?

/Roger Ohlund

Hey, Roger. Good to see you posting. Come on over. I am sure the
western boys and a few of the eastern ones would welcome you. I *can
not*, however, pick you up in Boston and drive you to Montana. d;o)
Can't say for sure that I would make it, but I'd love to fish with Dave
S. and you.

Hope to see you.

Dave

On 2 Nov, 23:47, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-11-02 14:23:48 -0500, angler said:



On 31 Okt, 16:31, Jarmo Hurri wrote:
Greetings!

Next year is a special occasion
snip
Jarmo Hurri

It feels a loooong time since I last posted on ROFF, but now I find it
hard to resist.
I can't spend as much time travelling around north America as Jarmo
and his friends, and I already have some fishing trips for 2010
planned (Jarmo mentioned one in Sweden), but I think it is about time
I did try out the fishing in the western part of the US. I've already
mentioned this to a couple of friends on another forum (Vaughan Hurry
among them), and it met with some interest.
What I would like is the opportunity to meet some of the guys present
when I visited the Penns clave and/or some of the people on this
forum, so here's a question from me: Wasn't there a western clave at
some point? What happened to it, or does it still occur?
Anyway, even if there isn't a western clave any longer, I would still
hope to do some fishing with people I've talked to/discussed with
rather than me and my friends trying the area out on our own. So what
are the chances of meeting up with some of you guys to do some
fishing?

/Roger Ohlund

Hey, Roger. *Good to see you posting. *Come on over. *I am sure the
western boys and a few of the eastern ones would welcome you. *I *can
not*, however, pick you up in Boston and drive you to Montana. *d;o) *
Can't say for sure that I would make it, but I'd love to fish with Dave
S. and you.

Hope to see you.

Dave

Dave,

I'm really grateful for you picking me up and driving me to Penns in
2004, damn how time flies, and no, I suppose the drive would be too
long for an Audi ;-) A Volvo on the other hand........
Yes, it would be fun to meet and fish.

/Roger

On Nov 2, 2:47*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
SNIP
but I'd love to fish with Dave
S. and you.

Hope to see you.

Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Me too pirate.
Dave S.

On 2009-11-02 17:54:45 -0500, DaveS said:

On Nov 2, 2:47*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
SNIP
but I'd love to fish with Dave
S. and you.

Hope to see you.

Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Me too pirate.
Dave S.

Well, what the hell are you waiting for? Fortenberry to offer his
help? Our fly tying movie star to tie all the flies? R Dean to offer
new rubber waders for everyone? wayno to attend and bring a gui-tar?
I'll attend as long as wayno doesn't bring a gui-tar.

Dave

On Nov 2, 4:54*pm, DaveS wrote:
On Nov 2, 2:47*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
SNIP
*but I'd love to fish with Dave

S. and you.

Hope to see you.

Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Me too pirate.
Dave S.

Gobs of places in the Rockies in the fall: N. Platte in the Snowies,
The Green above Pinedale, ponds around Independence pass in Colorado.
The problem isn't finding places, it's finding places away from the
catalogue yuppies. Stay completely away from Middle Park CO, the
Madison, the Henry's, etc. for that reason.

My best suggestion is to fly into Denver, rent a camper, buy some topo
maps, and wander (ROFFians here and there will probably convoy
portions with you). Turn it in in Portland and take home fantastic
memories.

cheers

oz, been there, done that

On Nov 2, 4:46*pm, angler wrote:
On 2 Nov, 22:38, DaveS wrote:





On Nov 2, 11:23*am, angler wrote:

On 31 Okt, 16:31, Jarmo Hurri wrote:

Greetings!

Next year is a special occasion
snip
Jarmo Hurri

It feels a loooong time since I last posted on ROFF, but now I find it
hard to resist.
I can't spend as much time travelling around north America as Jarmo
and his friends, and I already have some fishing trips for 2010
planned (Jarmo mentioned one in Sweden), but I think it is about time
I did try out the fishing in the western part of the US. I've already
mentioned this to a couple of friends on another forum (Vaughan Hurry
among them), and it met with some interest.
What I would like is the opportunity to meet some of the guys present
when I visited the Penns clave and/or some of the people on this
forum, so here's a question from me: Wasn't there a western clave at
some point? What happened to it, or does it still occur?
Anyway, even if there isn't a western clave any longer, I would still
hope to do some fishing with people I've talked to/discussed with
rather than me and my friends trying the area out on our own. So what
are the chances of meeting up with some of you guys to do some
fishing?

/Roger Ohlund

I think your chances are near certainty. Come on over.

BTW looked at your profile quote from Hill the railroad baron. I think
the "swedes" he was talking about is the archaic US word for a type of
root vegetable, usually a type of turnip, but sometimes meaning a
sweet potato variety and sometimes a kind of livestock food. It wasn't
meant offensively. A mash of potato and "swede" was a common working
class staple for the pioneering Irish track laying crews that pushed
J'P' Hill's Northern Pacific RR across the plains to the ocean.

I think Hill was saying that given tobacco, booze and turnips, he
could build a railroad to hell. I would have added soy sauce for the
Chinese dynamite crews, but having walked Hill's roadbed thru some of
the Cascade mountains, I don't think he was making an empty boast.

Dave

Maybe I was fooled by the "Swedes" with a capital S, or it could have
something to do with the following:

"President Lincoln's Homestead Act of 1862, the political
stabilization after 1865, and the enormously expanding industries of
the North represented three important drawing factors on Swedish
emigration to the U.S. The generous offer of the Homestead Act became
a powerful magnet on land-hungry farm people. This also destined them
to the so-called Homestead Triangle, especially to Minnesota, which
became the Swede State of America. This was in accordance with the
politics of Minnesota, where in 1867 a state immigration office was
established. The Swedish Civil War colonel Hans Mattson became its
first director. The result of the Swedish land-hunger was that the
area of Swedish-owned farmland in America of 1920 corresponded to 2/3
of all arable land in Sweden. In some counties, such as Chicago,
Isanti and Kanabec in Minnesota, the land became almost totally owned
by Swedes. A string of Swedish settlements also grew up around the new
railroads. The possibility of combining farmwork with jobs for the
railroad or a lumber company was important for the penniless Swedes.
Most of the unmarried men worked as lumberjacks or on the railroads.
The railroad king James Hill is quoted: "Give me snuff, whiskey and
Swedes, and I will build a railroad to hell." "

/Roger-

Hm.....seems clear enough to me.

g.
who, though perhaps not the best of readers, has never experienced
much trouble in distinguishing between a turnip and a teuton.

I will try to answer all of the replies in this single post.

First, on the topic of Montana / Idaho / Wyoming, you have to understand
that we are looking at this from distance and based on what we read from
the news. From here it has seemed that in many summers, the temperatures
and water levels in that region have been dramatic. Something similar to
what Fred and rw wrote:

Fred So fishing in MT (w plenty of small streams- and bigger ones ,
Fred rivers) has been good this time of year. In other yrs July begins
Fred the start of a hot dry 2 mo fire season where you are fishing for
Fred already stressed fish

rw July and August are prime months for the northern Rockies, but it
rw all depends on the weather, which is highly variable.

If the risks would be tolerable, for me the Montana / Wyoming / Idaho
(and now Colorado) region would definitely be the #1 choice. The
following responses only strengthened this idea:

Dave I think the wide expanse of the American and Canadian West during
Dave July and August, with some Roffians as guides could make for a
Dave once in a lifetime experience. Perhaps flying into Salt Lake or
Dave Colorado, then working your way North into Wyoming, Montana,
Dave Oregon, Washington, and maybe even Eastern BC on up past 150 Mile
Dave house into the Horsefly country etc. Think "road trip," no big
Dave cities, big sky, your very own cowboy hats, Jo Joes, much less
Dave than world class motels, real North Americans etc.., and lots of
Dave challenging technical fishing, on as many beautiful small streams
Dave and rivers as you would have probably seen in your lives.

rw If the weather is hot fish early and late, and fish the higher
rw elevations. There are plenty of tailwaters that are relatively
rw insensitive to short-term weather conditions and that are managed
rw for sport fishing.

jeff I like July in Montana...runoff is usually over in most places and
jeff there is every kind of fishing a person could want... i think
jeff yellowstone park is a must see for every person on the planet...

Tim Actually, a lot of the best fishing in southern Alberta is during
Tim mid-late july and August. Especially small creeks, and these tned
Tim to be less crowded. The fish are not huge, but repsectable, and
Tim fun.

Dan Once place that I think is about perfect that time of year, is
Dan western Colorado. ... Colorado (flows thru Glenwood), Eagle,
Dan Roaring Fork, Crystal, Frying Pan, plus Many, many, smaller creeks,
Dan and if you are into hiking, there are very small creeks hiking
Dan accessible that have lots of smaller brookies and cutthroats.

To summarize, I think I will proceed to try to convince my friends that
Western US / Canada would be our target.

On the idea of seeing a lot of different areas:

RDean Just to toss it out, but IMO, if you have three weeks in the US,
RDean why not see a little more of it? Maybe a week in each of three
RDean regions. I'd suggest the Northwest, the central/north-central
RDean Atlantic, and the Gulf Coast. You'd experience a range of
RDean fishing and people you'll not find anywhere else in the world...

Unfortunately I like fishing so much that every day spent packing and
traveling hurts. So I think that two geographical regions is the
maximum; preferably just one region and the possibility to move by car
(and keep all the gear "ready to be fished at any moment").

Frank A week in Arkansas on the White, North Fork and the Buffalo would
Frank be a hoot. The first two are tail waters with some of the biggest
Frank trout in the US.

I have heard / read of these places. IIRC, these have _amazing_ fish
densities. My friends might enjoy these rivers because of the larger
fish.

Dave Certain spots in Maine fish well in July, not so much in August.
Dave The Rapid, Malagalawy, and the East Outlet of Moosehead Lake fish
Dave well. Big brookies and landlocked salmon are the prey.

Unfortunately, if we are traveling as a group, end of July / beginning
of August is the only possible time. (Otherwise during the summer I am
more flexible than the rest of the group, and during the rest of the
season I am less flexible.)

Dave It's tough to fish Labrador without a guide.

From what I have understood, it is not only tough but very limited,
because they have the rule that you need to have 1 guide per two
fishermen if you are farther than 800 meters (or something similar) from
a highway. For three guys that would mean two guides.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Remove all garbage from header email address when replying, or just
use .

On Nov 2, 2:46*pm, angler wrote:
On 2 Nov, 22:38, DaveS wrote:





On Nov 2, 11:23*am, angler wrote:

On 31 Okt, 16:31, Jarmo Hurri wrote:

Greetings!

Next year is a special occasion
snip
Jarmo Hurri

It feels a loooong time since I last posted on ROFF, but now I find it
hard to resist.
I can't spend as much time travelling around north America as Jarmo
and his friends, and I already have some fishing trips for 2010
planned (Jarmo mentioned one in Sweden), but I think it is about time
I did try out the fishing in the western part of the US. I've already
mentioned this to a couple of friends on another forum (Vaughan Hurry
among them), and it met with some interest.
What I would like is the opportunity to meet some of the guys present
when I visited the Penns clave and/or some of the people on this
forum, so here's a question from me: Wasn't there a western clave at
some point? What happened to it, or does it still occur?
Anyway, even if there isn't a western clave any longer, I would still
hope to do some fishing with people I've talked to/discussed with
rather than me and my friends trying the area out on our own. So what
are the chances of meeting up with some of you guys to do some
fishing?

/Roger Ohlund

I think your chances are near certainty. Come on over.

BTW looked at your profile quote from Hill the railroad baron. I think
the "swedes" he was talking about is the archaic US word for a type of
root vegetable, usually a type of turnip, but sometimes meaning a
sweet potato variety and sometimes a kind of livestock food. It wasn't
meant offensively. A mash of potato and "swede" was a common working
class staple for the pioneering Irish track laying crews that pushed
J'P' Hill's Northern Pacific RR across the plains to the ocean.

I think Hill was saying that given tobacco, booze and turnips, he
could build a railroad to hell. I would have added soy sauce for the
Chinese dynamite crews, but having walked Hill's roadbed thru some of
the Cascade mountains, I don't think he was making an empty boast.

Dave

Maybe I was fooled by the "Swedes" with a capital S, or it could have
something to do with the following:

"President Lincoln's Homestead Act of 1862, the political
stabilization after 1865, and the enormously expanding industries of
the North represented three important drawing factors on Swedish
emigration to the U.S. The generous offer of the Homestead Act became
a powerful magnet on land-hungry farm people. This also destined them
to the so-called Homestead Triangle, especially to Minnesota, which
became the Swede State of America. This was in accordance with the
politics of Minnesota, where in 1867 a state immigration office was
established. The Swedish Civil War colonel Hans Mattson became its
first director. The result of the Swedish land-hunger was that the
area of Swedish-owned farmland in America of 1920 corresponded to 2/3
of all arable land in Sweden. In some counties, such as Chicago,
Isanti and Kanabec in Minnesota, the land became almost totally owned
by Swedes. A string of Swedish settlements also grew up around the new
railroads. The possibility of combining farmwork with jobs for the
railroad or a lumber company was important for the penniless Swedes.
Most of the unmarried men worked as lumberjacks or on the railroads.
The railroad king James Hill is quoted: "Give me snuff, whiskey and
Swedes, and I will build a railroad to hell." "

/Roger- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, either way, it is an interesting quote. I think it was mostly
Chinese building East, and Irish building West, but hell, JJ Hill was
the RR Baron and maybe he tended more to Swedes than I thought.

However this idea for a US trip works out, I can help make it happen
if it tends toward the US West. For example I can get you from Seattle
or Portland out to the Bitterroot Mt's (Montana) in my van, with some
fishing along the way, put up folks at my place overnight in Western
Washington, or out at the place in SE Washington etc..

As per the andronomous offerings on the NW coast rivers in mid
summer . . . I am not the guy who knows much about that. Maybe someone
else here on Roff has something the add in that regard.

Dave S.

On Nov 2, 3:11*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-11-02 17:54:45 -0500, DaveS said:

On Nov 2, 2:47*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
SNIP
*but I'd love to fish with Dave
S. and you.

Hope to see you.

Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Me too pirate.
Dave S.

Well, what the hell are you waiting for? *Fortenberry to offer his
help? *Our fly tying movie star to tie all the flies? *R Dean to offer
new rubber waders for everyone? * wayno to attend and bring a gui-tar? *
I'll attend as long as wayno doesn't bring a gui-tar.

Dave

We should get together. I could host a mini-clave in SE Washington
next fall fishing the Touchet and Tucannon, which I am getting to know
fairly well, or for the more cold hardy a bit of Winter steel-heading
on the same waters this Winter. Ive got a camper out there and several
tent sites along the river. There is also a great little 1890s hotel
in Dayton, 2 great restaurants, one good bar, an a bargain of a little
ski area nearby in the Blue Mtns. It does get pretty cold in Winter
but there are steelhead in the river. 3 flites daily out of SeaTac to
Walla Walla and back. And something like 200 wineries down there.

Otherwise, during spring thru summer I am out there about half time
(unless im traveling myself) so we could get together for some
gentlemanly paced, uncrowded, small river fly fishing under sunny
skies.

Other Roffians out there should also read this as a general invite
such that if you are interested in fishing the SE corner of Wa, let me
know and maybe we can get together or at least we can share info.

Dave

On 3 Nov, 16:51, Jarmo Hurri wrote:
I will try to answer all of the replies in this single post.

First, on the topic of Montana / Idaho / Wyoming, you have to understand
that we are looking at this from distance and based on what we read from
the news. From here it has seemed that in many summers, the temperatures
and water levels in that region have been dramatic. Something similar to
what Fred and rw wrote:

Fred So fishing in MT (w plenty of small streams- and bigger ones ,
Fred rivers) has been good this time of year. In other yrs July begins
Fred the start of a hot dry 2 mo fire season where you are fishing for
Fred already stressed fish

rw July and August are prime months for the northern Rockies, but it
rw all depends on the weather, which is highly variable.

If the risks would be tolerable, for me the Montana / Wyoming / Idaho
(and now Colorado) region would definitely be the #1 choice. The
following responses only strengthened this idea:

Dave I think the wide expanse of the American and Canadian West during
Dave July and August, with some Roffians as guides could make for a
Dave once in a lifetime experience. Perhaps flying into Salt Lake or
Dave Colorado, then working your way North into Wyoming, Montana,
Dave Oregon, Washington, and maybe even Eastern BC on up past 150 Mile
Dave house into the Horsefly country etc. *Think "road trip," no big
Dave cities, big sky, your very own cowboy hats, Jo Joes, much less
Dave than world class motels, real North Americans etc.., and lots of
Dave challenging technical fishing, on as many beautiful small streams
Dave and rivers as you would have probably seen in your lives.

rw If the weather is hot fish early and late, and fish the higher
rw elevations. There are plenty of tailwaters that are relatively
rw insensitive to short-term weather conditions and that are managed
rw for sport fishing.

jeff I like July in Montana...runoff is usually over in most places and
jeff there is every kind of fishing a person could want... i think
jeff yellowstone park is a must see for every person on the planet...

Tim Actually, a lot of the best fishing in southern Alberta is during
Tim mid-late july and August. Especially small creeks, and these tned
Tim to be less crowded. The fish are not huge, but repsectable, and
Tim fun.

Dan Once place that I think is about perfect that time of year, is
Dan western Colorado. *... Colorado (flows thru Glenwood), Eagle,
Dan Roaring Fork, Crystal, Frying Pan, plus Many, many, smaller creeks,
Dan and if you are into hiking, there are very small creeks hiking
Dan accessible that have lots of smaller brookies and cutthroats.

To summarize, I think I will proceed to try to convince my friends that
Western US / Canada would be our target.

On the idea of seeing a lot of different areas:

RDean Just to toss it out, but IMO, if you have three weeks in the US,
RDean why not see a little more of it? *Maybe a week in each of three
RDean regions. *I'd suggest the Northwest, the central/north-central
RDean Atlantic, and the Gulf Coast. *You'd experience a range of
RDean fishing and people you'll not find anywhere else in the world...

Unfortunately I like fishing so much that every day spent packing and
traveling hurts. So I think that two geographical regions is the
maximum; preferably just one region and the possibility to move by car
(and keep all the gear "ready to be fished at any moment").

Frank A week in Arkansas on the White, North Fork and the Buffalo would
Frank be a hoot. The first two are tail waters with some of the biggest
Frank trout in the US.

I have heard / read of these places. IIRC, these have _amazing_ fish
densities. My friends might enjoy these rivers because of the larger
fish.

Dave Certain spots in Maine fish well in July, not so much in August.
Dave The Rapid, Malagalawy, and the East Outlet of Moosehead Lake fish
Dave well. Big brookies and landlocked salmon are the prey.

Unfortunately, if we are traveling as a group, end of July / beginning
of August is the only possible time. (Otherwise during the summer I am
more flexible than the rest of the group, and during the rest of the
season I am less flexible.)

Dave It's tough to fish Labrador without a guide.

From what I have understood, it is not only tough but very limited,
because they have the rule that you need to have 1 guide per two
fishermen if you are farther than 800 meters (or something similar) from
a highway. For three guys that would mean two guides.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Remove all garbage from header email address when replying, or just
use .

Good summary Jarmo, I agree with what you wrote with the slightly
different perspective of only having about one week to spend on such
an adventure.
How different wouldn't it be to meet up in the west of the US, rather
than the remote (read unpopulated) destinations we usually meet, I'll
see if I can't get Vaughan to join.
For our American friends reading this, I would be really keen on
meeting up with like minded (not to say single minded ;-) ) fly-
fishermen. To fish together with guys with local knowledge of an
area......., - beats most scenarios.

/Roger