Q: North America in Jul-Aug

On 2009-11-03 12:20:02 -0500, DaveS said:

On Nov 2, 3:11*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2009-11-02 17:54:45 -0500, DaveS said:

On Nov 2, 2:47*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
SNIP
*but I'd love to fish with Dave
S. and you.

Hope to see you.

Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Me too pirate.
Dave S.

Well, what the hell are you waiting for? *Fortenberry to offer his
help? *Our fly tying movie star to tie all the flies? *R Dean to offe
r
new rubber waders for everyone? * wayno to attend and bring a gui-tar?
*
I'll attend as long as wayno doesn't bring a gui-tar.

Dave

We should get together. I could host a mini-clave in SE Washington

Been to Washingon but never the SE area. Your idea sounds great, and
I will keep it in mind.

I've turned into a bit of a candy-ass, Dave. No more winter fishing
for me, except in Georgia/North Carlina. Can't take the cold.

Dave

On Nov 3, 7:51*am, Jarmo Hurri wrote:

..

If the risks would be tolerable, for me the Montana / Wyoming / Idaho
(and now Colorado) region would definitely be the #1 choice.



For the last 8 years I've done the retired troutbum thing in
Montahoming each summer. Last season I left home on May 16th got
back home around Oct 10 and fished nearly every day in between

rw, told it like it is ... i.e. the weather is "highly variable" ...
in those 8 ( maybe it's 9 now ) years I've seen August be a hot, hot,
time with poor fishing because of that heat. I've also seen August
be the best fishing month of the year. Last year, I had truly
fabulous fishing in late July and early August then a very weird COLD
spell hit, mid-August, and things got very slow for some time. Then
late in September, when it 'should' have been getting cold and
spurring the baetis and Mahoganies into hatching it proved to be a
very warm Indian Summer and, for me, the slowest period of the
season. Plan on the unplanned.

IF I had to plan a two week Montahoming trip and my life depended on
it providing great fishing ... I'd make sure my will was written and
affairs in order, since it's largely up to the very fickle weather.

MY suggestion is to pick places you want "to see" and then hope for
good conditions, since 'luck' in the weather is part of the fishing
game. That way you get to do the "seeing" regardless and if you
have two weeks you will also find some very good angling at least part
of the time, unless you are very unlucky. A second suggestion,
have backup plans ... a few hours drive, especially with altitude
changes, can make a large difference

One last note, ... much of the fishing you are likely to hear about
might qualify, to you, as 'combat' fishing. Face it, if the fish
are big and easy ... Joe, Martha, and Herman Vacationer are likely to
be there flapping their rods. Only you can define too crowded, for
yourself. I know guys that get upset if they even see another angler
and guys that intentionally travel in "Fishing Gangs" ( aka Claves?),
only you know you. Just be aware that the more likely it is that
fishing will be good, the more likely that you'll share that water
with many others. The Internet has all but eliminated unknown
waters and the periods of plenty, spent alone, before "the news gets
out" about a good hatch, on the known. And, be aware,
Yellowstone is always crowded ( record numbers visited last year ) ...
some of the worst traffic in the world crawls through some of the
greatest natural wonder.

We live in NW Montana near Glacier
Its a 6-7 hr drive to Yellowstone

I can and will offer lodging for 2-3 people , fish here for a day or so and
then head south to meet everyone in Yellowstone
or by the entrance - w my vehicle

Ken's suggestion seemed great - If we agree on this p[lace I think I would
prefer to ride in by horse

If this happens we need to firm up a date more sooner than later as I have
some other trips planned esp one w my granddaughter & need to put down some
deposits

If there is some interest I will give further detail

Perhaps next fall opr spring for Steelhead fishing in WA
I have not done that in a while and miss it
We have spent some ugly cold even snowy days fishing for them

Senor Wences

angler wrote:
On 3 Nov, 16:51, Jarmo Hurri wrote:
I will try to answer all of the replies in this single post.

First, on the topic of Montana / Idaho / Wyoming, you have to understand
that we are looking at this from distance and based on what we read from
the news. From here it has seemed that in many summers, the temperatures
and water levels in that region have been dramatic. Something similar to
what Fred and rw wrote:

Fred So fishing in MT (w plenty of small streams- and bigger ones ,
Fred rivers) has been good this time of year. In other yrs July begins
Fred the start of a hot dry 2 mo fire season where you are fishing for
Fred already stressed fish

rw July and August are prime months for the northern Rockies, but it
rw all depends on the weather, which is highly variable.

If the risks would be tolerable, for me the Montana / Wyoming / Idaho
(and now Colorado) region would definitely be the #1 choice. The
following responses only strengthened this idea:

Dave I think the wide expanse of the American and Canadian West during
Dave July and August, with some Roffians as guides could make for a
Dave once in a lifetime experience. Perhaps flying into Salt Lake or
Dave Colorado, then working your way North into Wyoming, Montana,
Dave Oregon, Washington, and maybe even Eastern BC on up past 150 Mile
Dave house into the Horsefly country etc. Think "road trip," no big
Dave cities, big sky, your very own cowboy hats, Jo Joes, much less
Dave than world class motels, real North Americans etc.., and lots of
Dave challenging technical fishing, on as many beautiful small streams
Dave and rivers as you would have probably seen in your lives.

rw If the weather is hot fish early and late, and fish the higher
rw elevations. There are plenty of tailwaters that are relatively
rw insensitive to short-term weather conditions and that are managed
rw for sport fishing.

jeff I like July in Montana...runoff is usually over in most places and
jeff there is every kind of fishing a person could want... i think
jeff yellowstone park is a must see for every person on the planet...

Tim Actually, a lot of the best fishing in southern Alberta is during
Tim mid-late july and August. Especially small creeks, and these tned
Tim to be less crowded. The fish are not huge, but repsectable, and
Tim fun.

Dan Once place that I think is about perfect that time of year, is
Dan western Colorado. ... Colorado (flows thru Glenwood), Eagle,
Dan Roaring Fork, Crystal, Frying Pan, plus Many, many, smaller creeks,
Dan and if you are into hiking, there are very small creeks hiking
Dan accessible that have lots of smaller brookies and cutthroats.

To summarize, I think I will proceed to try to convince my friends that
Western US / Canada would be our target.

On the idea of seeing a lot of different areas:

RDean Just to toss it out, but IMO, if you have three weeks in the US,
RDean why not see a little more of it? Maybe a week in each of three
RDean regions. I'd suggest the Northwest, the central/north-central
RDean Atlantic, and the Gulf Coast. You'd experience a range of
RDean fishing and people you'll not find anywhere else in the world...

Unfortunately I like fishing so much that every day spent packing and
traveling hurts. So I think that two geographical regions is the
maximum; preferably just one region and the possibility to move by car
(and keep all the gear "ready to be fished at any moment").

Frank A week in Arkansas on the White, North Fork and the Buffalo would
Frank be a hoot. The first two are tail waters with some of the biggest
Frank trout in the US.

I have heard / read of these places. IIRC, these have _amazing_ fish
densities. My friends might enjoy these rivers because of the larger
fish.

Dave Certain spots in Maine fish well in July, not so much in August.
Dave The Rapid, Malagalawy, and the East Outlet of Moosehead Lake fish
Dave well. Big brookies and landlocked salmon are the prey.

Unfortunately, if we are traveling as a group, end of July / beginning
of August is the only possible time. (Otherwise during the summer I am
more flexible than the rest of the group, and during the rest of the
season I am less flexible.)

Dave It's tough to fish Labrador without a guide.

From what I have understood, it is not only tough but very limited,
because they have the rule that you need to have 1 guide per two
fishermen if you are farther than 800 meters (or something similar) from
a highway. For three guys that would mean two guides.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Remove all garbage from header email address when replying, or just
use .

Good summary Jarmo, I agree with what you wrote with the slightly
different perspective of only having about one week to spend on such
an adventure.
How different wouldn't it be to meet up in the west of the US, rather
than the remote (read unpopulated) destinations we usually meet, I'll
see if I can't get Vaughan to join.
For our American friends reading this, I would be really keen on
meeting up with like minded (not to say single minded ;-) ) fly-
fishermen. To fish together with guys with local knowledge of an
area......., - beats most scenarios.

/Roger

if your decision ultimately settles on the area around yellowstone, i'll
be interested in joining the group for 7-10 days. i know my way around
yellowstone, the madison and its tribs, and a few other spots nearby
within 30-40 miles of west yellowstone, fairly well based on my past
visits. but the western guys - warren, john h., steve/rw, willi, chas,
larry, or yellowstone kenny - will certainly be better resources.
montana is a big state. i think the yellowstone area offers the most
variety within a day's travel for a fishing and sightseeing trip. in any
event, there are more than enough different types of waters and fish
(small, big), including lakes, in the area to keep a normal human happy.
willi and steve know the nearby wyoming and idaho areas too, and ken
spent enough time in yellowstone to make it worth your while. you are
more likely to find a number of folks available to help with your visit
in that area, imo. while water temps and flows in late july and august
can affect the hours of fishing (and i've been there once when the
waters were low)...if i was on a flyer out west, i'd choose the montana
area around yellowstone as a focus. it's a facinating place...and
offers a variety of landscape, remote country, non-remote night-life,
good food and drink, humor, true sportsmen, art, culture, eccentric
personalities, etc... it's one of my favorite places on this earth and i
think you guys will enjoy it.

jeff

On 3-Nov-2009, jeff wrote:

if your decision ultimately settles on the area around yellowstone, i'll
be interested in joining the group for 7-10 days. i know my way around
yellowstone, the madison and its tribs, and a few other spots nearby
within 30-40 miles of west yellowstone, fairly well based on my past
visits. but the western guys - warren, john h., steve/rw, willi, chas,
larry, or yellowstone kenny - will certainly be better resources.
montana is a big state. i think the yellowstone area offers the most
variety within a day's travel for a fishing and sightseeing trip. in any
event, there are more than enough different types of waters and fish
(small, big), including lakes, in the area to keep a normal human happy.
willi and steve know the nearby wyoming and idaho areas too, and ken
spent enough time in yellowstone to make it worth your while. you are
more likely to find a number of folks available to help with your visit
in that area, imo. while water temps and flows in late july and august
can affect the hours of fishing (and i've been there once when the
waters were low)...if i was on a flyer out west, i'd choose the montana
area around yellowstone as a focus. it's a facinating place...and
offers a variety of landscape, remote country, non-remote night-life,
good food and drink, humor, true sportsmen, art, culture, eccentric
personalities, etc... it's one of my favorite places on this earth and i
think you guys will enjoy it.

jeff

I agree w the Yellowstone area
There are numerous rivers in and out of the park.

If this happens I can take 3 guys down if they fly into Kalispell Glacier
Park Int'l AP
This may or may not be cheaper than Bozeman or West Yellowstone???

Fred

Larry L wrote:
On Nov 3, 7:51 am, Jarmo Hurri wrote:

.
If the risks would be tolerable, for me the Montana / Wyoming / Idaho
(and now Colorado) region would definitely be the #1 choice.



For the last 8 years I've done the retired troutbum thing in
Montahoming each summer. Last season I left home on May 16th got
back home around Oct 10 and fished nearly every day in between

rw, told it like it is ... i.e. the weather is "highly variable" ...
in those 8 ( maybe it's 9 now ) years I've seen August be a hot, hot,
time with poor fishing because of that heat. I've also seen August
be the best fishing month of the year. Last year, I had truly
fabulous fishing in late July and early August then a very weird COLD
spell hit, mid-August, and things got very slow for some time. Then
late in September, when it 'should' have been getting cold and
spurring the baetis and Mahoganies into hatching it proved to be a
very warm Indian Summer and, for me, the slowest period of the
season. Plan on the unplanned.

IF I had to plan a two week Montahoming trip and my life depended on
it providing great fishing ... I'd make sure my will was written and
affairs in order, since it's largely up to the very fickle weather.

MY suggestion is to pick places you want "to see" and then hope for
good conditions, since 'luck' in the weather is part of the fishing
game. That way you get to do the "seeing" regardless and if you
have two weeks you will also find some very good angling at least part
of the time, unless you are very unlucky. A second suggestion,
have backup plans ... a few hours drive, especially with altitude
changes, can make a large difference

One last note, ... much of the fishing you are likely to hear about
might qualify, to you, as 'combat' fishing. Face it, if the fish
are big and easy ... Joe, Martha, and Herman Vacationer are likely to
be there flapping their rods. Only you can define too crowded, for
yourself. I know guys that get upset if they even see another angler
and guys that intentionally travel in "Fishing Gangs" ( aka Claves?),
only you know you. Just be aware that the more likely it is that
fishing will be good, the more likely that you'll share that water
with many others. The Internet has all but eliminated unknown
waters and the periods of plenty, spent alone, before "the news gets
out" about a good hatch, on the known. And, be aware,
Yellowstone is always crowded ( record numbers visited last year ) ...
some of the worst traffic in the world crawls through some of the
greatest natural wonder.

exactly right larry... but, the fact you continue to return to the area
each year says something about it's uniqueness and allure. i don't like
crowds...but, i've never been disappointed during any of my trips to
that area. i've fished the madison amongst lots of others, but always
found stretches and spots to myself, and plenty of willing fish...also,
i have always found other streams that allowed solitary fishing for the
day. one of them held and yielded cutthroats of 16-20 inches that danl
and i caught all day long.

i've no doubt it will be vastly different than the arctic circle trips
roger and jarmo enjoy...but that's probably a good thing. seeing
yellowstone...like the great museums of the world...is well worth the
crowds on the roads. a hike of a few miles leaves the vehicular-bound
way behind and affords a glimpse of an entirely different world. if they
could hit a salmonfly hatch...well...you know.

still, for me, fishing is about chasing the great mystery...and, i
reckon montana/wyoming offers as many clues as a fisherman could hope
for... i know roger would like it, and i know you guys will like roger.
i suspect the same is true about jarmo and his friends.

jeff

On Nov 3, 3:04*pm, jeff wrote:

*i don't like
crowds...but, i've never been disappointed during any of my trips to
that area. i've fished the madison amongst lots of others, but always
found stretches and spots to myself, and plenty of willing fish


I wasn't trying to discourage ... just make aware

As a 'friend' I'd say "Go to the Yellowstone area, it may not prove to
be what you expect, but it almost certainly will be a rewarding trip."

I won't suggest specific spots because MY outlook on fly fishing seems
to be rather different than 'the average' and the places I spend the
most time usually disappoint the majority of visiting anglers.
BUT, it's relatively easy to find water to suit nearly any taste
within day trip distance of West Jellystone

On Nov 3, 3:04*pm, jeff wrote:

.. a hike of a few miles leaves the vehicular-bound
way behind and affords a glimpse of an entirely different world.


I think the difference between the hike to and non-hike to is greater
in Yellowstone than elsewhere. Probably the fear of the big bad
bear and the fact that millions think seeing Yellowstone is driving
all the roads in as little time as possible, makes the zone beyond the
roads more exciting than in, say, the Sierra

Last time I fished Slough ( down at the first easy access meadow ) I
ran into fresh bear tracks and when I returned to my truck brand new
"Grizzly Bear Activity" signs not there a few hours earlier ( seems
two anglers had stumbled on a Elk kill and been bluff charged, very
near where I had fished). Add the howling of the Slough Creek pack
of wolves and my mini-hike was an adventure far beyond the Cutts
caught ... fact is I don't remember what I caught ( probably 16 to 20
inch Cutthroats, .... all day ;-) ...

On 4 Nov, 01:37, Larry L wrote:
On Nov 3, 3:04*pm, jeff wrote:

. a hike of a few miles leaves the vehicular-bound

way behind and affords a glimpse of an entirely different world.

I think the difference between the hike to and non-hike to is greater
in Yellowstone than elsewhere. * *Probably the fear of the big bad
bear and the fact that millions think seeing Yellowstone is driving
all the roads in as little time as possible, makes the zone beyond the
roads more exciting than in, say, the Sierra

Last time I fished Slough ( down at the first easy access meadow ) I
ran into fresh bear tracks and when I returned to my truck brand new
"Grizzly Bear Activity" signs not there a few hours earlier ( seems
two anglers had stumbled on a Elk kill and been bluff charged, very
near where I had fished). * Add the howling of the Slough Creek pack
of wolves and my mini-hike was an adventure far beyond the Cutts
caught ... fact is I don't remember what I caught ( probably 16 to 20
inch Cutthroats, .... all day ;-) ...

A little note from the Swede: We don't have Grizzlys, they look scary!
Last time I checked we had some 3.500-4.000 brown bears in Sweden,
about 10% of which can be found in the county where I live (I hunt for
them). And although they are bigger than your black bears they are
still so much smaller than a Grizzly. Which gives me reason to think
about carefully listening to the locals if visiting Yellowstone. Don't
want to end my days as bear food.
But, when it comes to hiking and camping in the wilderness I will go
out on a limb and say that very few of you probably spend more time
than me doing such activities, why I would be pleased to see some of
what Yellowstone can offer outside of the normal tourist paths. That
said, I will likely not be able to bring gear to do any overnight
camping but will need a place to stay. The sheer cost (and nuisance)
of bringing the camping gear on a plane is not acceptable.
As this discussion proceed it would be good to have a more definite
"where and when", since it will take some planning to get from here to
Yellowstone.
Then, later on, comes all the fun, planning for what flies I'll need
and so on.
Let's try and make this happen................

/Roger

"angler" wrote in message
...
On 4 Nov, 01:37, Larry L wrote:
On Nov 3, 3:04 pm, jeff wrote:

. a hike of a few miles leaves the vehicular-bound

way behind and affords a glimpse of an entirely different world.

I think the difference between the hike to and non-hike to is greater
in Yellowstone than elsewhere. Probably the fear of the big bad
bear and the fact that millions think seeing Yellowstone is driving
all the roads in as little time as possible, makes the zone beyond the
roads more exciting than in, say, the Sierra

Last time I fished Slough ( down at the first easy access meadow ) I
ran into fresh bear tracks and when I returned to my truck brand new
"Grizzly Bear Activity" signs not there a few hours earlier ( seems
two anglers had stumbled on a Elk kill and been bluff charged, very
near where I had fished). Add the howling of the Slough Creek pack
of wolves and my mini-hike was an adventure far beyond the Cutts
caught ... fact is I don't remember what I caught ( probably 16 to 20
inch Cutthroats, .... all day ;-) ...

A little note from the Swede: We don't have Grizzlys, they look scary!
Last time I checked we had some 3.500-4.000 brown bears in Sweden,
about 10% of which can be found in the county where I live (I hunt for
them). And although they are bigger than your black bears they are
still so much smaller than a Grizzly. Which gives me reason to think
about carefully listening to the locals if visiting Yellowstone. Don't
want to end my days as bear food.
But, when it comes to hiking and camping in the wilderness I will go
out on a limb and say that very few of you probably spend more time
than me doing such activities, why I would be pleased to see some of
what Yellowstone can offer outside of the normal tourist paths. That
said, I will likely not be able to bring gear to do any overnight
camping but will need a place to stay. The sheer cost (and nuisance)
of bringing the camping gear on a plane is not acceptable.
As this discussion proceed it would be good to have a more definite
"where and when", since it will take some planning to get from here to
Yellowstone.
Then, later on, comes all the fun, planning for what flies I'll need
and so on.
Let's try and make this happen................

/Roger

Roger,

I'd be more than happy to ship my campin' gear to where ever you end up
travelin' to. I have some pretty decent lightweight gear that I bought to
hang out with Wolfgang and Asadi back in 2000. Bivy style tent, less than 5
lbs. (Mountain Hardware), SlumberJack sleepin' bags--separating--bag-in-bag
design, good to -30 fahren., Primus stove, Ther-o-rest pad, Pure Hiker water
filter.

Let me know your plans and I will be happy to help out, with no worries if
unexpected things happen to gear--I'm not one to fret such matters. I'd ship
everything in a reusable shipping container and you would merely have to
ship it back to me--I'll eve pay return shipping!

Mark