Thank you, Mr. O.

On Jan 21, 3:21*pm, jh wrote:
On Jan 21, 1:53*pm, Giles wrote:





On Jan 21, 1:05*pm, jh wrote:

On Jan 20, 3:50*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:

Polls clearly indicate, that if political buzzwords get stripped away, the
public wishes to have single-payer public health insurance.

what polls? *single payer system? I don't think so. *The base system
we have is fine - the problem is that the costs are too high- be it
litigation, or overly expensive development costs, or what have you.
The US gvmt is about the worst run corp. in the country - why would
anyone in their right minds want them in the insurance business?

I don't think the medical system we have needs fixed as much as the
insurance industry needs fixed.

I think that what is really needed is a move to major medical expense
insurance- (catastrophic coverage) *and let the individual pay 100%
for minor stuff. *If the policy costs were decreased accordingly and
indiviuals were allowed to establish pre-tax medical savings accounts
that could accumulate, or even be swept into a 401 type plan. *That
would work for most employed people. My policy costs me something like
8k a year- cut it back to 2 k a year and let me dump the 6 into a Med
savings account and I could have paid cash for my gall bladder surgery
a few years ago. *That would cut out gobs and gobs of paperwork.

At issue is really those who are at or below poverty level - so we
enhancement medicare/medicade or some similar system (private,
please!) and we could have the ability to provide medical care to
those folks.

In any case, this whole health plan thing is distant secondary issue
when compared to the economy. *If the US can't get a functional
sustaining economy going we have problems. *The leadership of this
country needs to quit wasting its time on a health plan that is not
needed NOW, and turn its brain power onto the economy and figure out
how to get the US market going on a paying basis in the world
economy. *As long as damn near everything you buy has Made in China on
it, we are screwed.

Even in the event of a us catastrophic economic meltdown though, I'd
still bet there are fish in Fawn Lake.

John

P.s. I'll save Giles the trouble

idiot

So, the government you want to bring its awesome collective intellect
and power to bear on the current economic woes that beset the
nation.....would that be a different United States government than the
"worst run corp. in the country," the one that no one in their right
minds would want in the insurance business?

Moron.

g.
who is happy that, at long last, we have a positive answer to the ages
old question of whether or not stupid people know they are stupid.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually I am rather hoping that with some intelligence, along with
some advisors from the hated big business community, they can develop
and pass decent legislation that creates a business environment that
lets US business compete in the world market.

Good luck with that. Big business doesn't care whether the U.S. can
compete in world markets. Big business does business where costs are
low and profits are high......where that is doesn't matter to them.

I don't actually expect
them to actually run any of these businesses (please!).

Yeah, I got a shiny new nickel says your expectations are as high on
their list of priorities as they are on all of ours.

I think that is their job (legislation).

That's it, huh? Legislation?

So, running the post office is someone else's business? And police
and fire protection? Army? Navy? Air Force? Marines? Coast
Guard? Coast and Geodetic Survey? National Weather Service? National
Parks? National Forests?

Big business gonna pave your roads? Plow your streets? Purify your
drinking water? Protect your rivers, lakes, seashores, grasslands,
forests, deserts, mountains, beaches, birds, mammals, reptiles, fish,
mussels and crayfish from the rapacious government?

Is big business going to ensure that future generations benefit from
the parklands so grossly neglected and exploited by federal, state,
county and municipal governments for the past three or four centuries?

Maybe they should just do it. *

Maybe you should pull your head out of whoever's ass it resides in and
get a first taste of oxygen......who knows, you might learn to like
it.

It won't be easy or trivial-

No, but trust me, it's worth the effort.

as long as China and other places
have $2/hr wages and no environmental laws to speak of, it won't be
easy for the US market to build affordable tennis shoes, electronics,
or cars, or widgets, or ---.

Oh, that won't be possible. Big business and it's bought and paid for
representatives in Washington, Beijing, London, Paris, Berlin, Tokyo
and various other places around the world have seen to that.

I don't think we can wait it out for 60
or 70 years until they have their own ecology movement (and then pass
the "industrial revolution" on to the next batch of up and coming
developing nations.)

Imbecile. The industrial revolution ended over a century ago.

I consider myself to be something of an environmentally aware
/responsible person -

Well, your wrong.....you're actually much more a cretin.

but I have to say that I was somewhat dismayed
recently when it became good news that the local paper mill is
shutting down.

News doesn't become good or bad. It is one or the other, depending on
personal tastes. You should think about what yours are.....and why
they aren't viewed with much favor by civilized folks.

470 +/- layoffs from the mill directly and another
1200 jobs in related and support industry.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This is good news because
something like 7% of the sub 2.5 micron pollution in the Missoula
basin is from the mills hog fuel boilers, and the air quality here may
fail new lower standard EPA regulations.

No. Loss of jobs that support people in their efforts to maintain a
semblence of a decent lifetsyle is NOT good news. On the other hand,
if the EPA has indeed implemented "lower" standards, that is indeed
good news. The bad news is that enforcement of those new standards is
always iffy (at best), and the pigs who routinely violate them with
impunity will continue to do so......in Missoula and/or elsewhere.
So, whattya think, Einstein, should the EPA just legislate?......or
should they maybe enforce as well?

Missoula made the news last
night as being one the top 15 cities in the country for job losses in
the last 16 months.

well. gosh.

Move to Detroit.

But, by golly, we'll have clean air.

Easy enough to avoid that. Move to Gary.

I shoot a lot of skeet these days - The latest panic in the skeet
world is lead shot prices are heading back up to ridiculous levels--
because China shut one of their lead mines down.

Tsk, tsk. Life is tough

john

Idiot.

g.

Who's Giles?

I think he may be Obama himself, I'm not sure yet.

john

On Jan 21, 3:24*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-01-21 14:05:24 -0500, jh said:



Even in the event of a us catastrophic economic meltdown though, I'd
still bet there are fish in Fawn Lake.

I have it from a very reliable lib......progr......idi.....source that
there are NO fish in Fawn Lake. *Matter of fact, Fawn Lake is not even
a lake.



John

P.s. I'll save Giles the trouble

Who's Giles?

See, and the rest of us go a lifetime without ever coming up with
anything that clever.

Moron.

Pig.

g.

On Jan 21, 4:36*pm, jh wrote:
Who's Giles?

I think he may be Obama himself, I'm not sure yet.

john

That's good. It's only when you become sure that the stupidity is
unmistakable.

g.
a life lesson that should be taken to heart by so many......everywhere.

Who's Giles?

sorry Dave, apparently I was wrong, It's Keith.

john

On Jan 21, 5:05*pm, jh wrote:
Who's Giles?

sorry Dave, apparently I was wrong, It's Keith.

john

Idiot.

g.

"jh" wrote in message
...
single payer system? I don't think so. The base system
we have is fine - the problem is that the costs are too high-

gee, and why do you think that might be??

The US gvmt is about the worst run corp. in the country - why would
anyone in their right minds want them in the insurance business?

here's a power stroke from the clue bat for ya, John. It's a government, not
a corporation. And, in the realm of healthcare insurance, the overhead for
Medicare is a fraction of that for private insurers.

I don't think the medical system we have needs fixed as much as the
insurance industry needs fixed.

or possibly eliminated. We need extra layers of middle managers, why,
exactly?

I think that what is really needed is a move to major medical expense
insurance- (catastrophic coverage) and let the individual pay 100%
for minor stuff. If the policy costs were decreased accordingly and
indiviuals were allowed to establish pre-tax medical savings accounts
that could accumulate, or even be swept into a 401 type plan. That
would work for most employed people. My policy costs me something like
8k a year- cut it back to 2 k a year and let me dump the 6 into a Med
savings account and I could have paid cash for my gall bladder surgery
a few years ago. That would cut out gobs and gobs of paperwork.

of course, none of this addresses how healthcare costs cause people to stay
wedded to certain jobs, or how companies keep people part-time to avoid
covering them.
Neither does it address folks going bankrupt when they lose jobs in the
real-world economy. Also, it doesn't' address the loss of competition for
American companies who DO actually treat workers well by covering medical
insurance costs.

In any case, this whole health plan thing is distant secondary issue
when compared to the economy.

Luckily, we at least have a President who understands that long-term, this
issue is central to maintaining a functional, competitive economy in a time
of global competition. A pity it is that you don't get it, but I doubt that
many are shocked by that fact.

As long as damn near everything you buy has Made in China on
it, we are screwed.

Wait a minute. Earlier, you praise corporate America, and here, you bemoan
the economic reality they have brought you? Who, exactly, do you think
decided that importing from China was a good idea?? American workers? I
won't belabor a point others made well, but it's all about cheap labor,
affordable shipping and high profit margins.

John

P.s. I'll save Giles the trouble

idiot

you didn't really have to add that last part. You've clearly shown your
intellect without tacking on such a concise self-descriptive tag after your
name.......

sheesh!
Tom

On Jan 21, 6:33*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"jh" wrote in message



John

P.s. I'll save Giles the trouble

idiot

you didn't really have to add that last part. You've clearly shown your
intellect without tacking on such a concise self-descriptive tag after your
name.......

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * sheesh!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom

Nicely said.

I like that.

giles
like, who wouldn't have guessed, right?

On Jan 21, 5:50*pm, Giles wrote:
On Jan 21, 6:33*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:

"jh" wrote in message

John

P.s. I'll save Giles the trouble

idiot

you didn't really have to add that last part. You've clearly shown your
intellect without tacking on such a concise self-descriptive tag after your
name.......

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * sheesh!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom

Nicely said.

I like that.

giles
like, who wouldn't have guessed, right? * * *

ok, i'm begining to get it - what we need then is good income, but not
income at the expense of others- that about right? Also, since its
health insurance is too profitable for the ins. co's - they need to be
eliminated. I think I'm catching on.

What about say, auto insurance, liability insurance for contractors?
(there is good one to eliminate- lets start on that one next-ok?
Someone is making too much here, (I just lost $25,000 worth of small
equipment yesterday to theft - insurance is already denying coverage)

how about work comp? i like the idea of eliminating those guys too.-
they cost me a fortune every year - obviously that has to be wrong. I
mean for structural steel work, i pay almost as mcuh insurance as I do
wages (75% IIRC)

And pensions- multiemployer pension funds are in deep dark **** right
now, yet they are a huge expense for those of us unlucky enough to pay
into them, and are financially liable for them if they fail (thank you
IRS). We need to get started on those while we are fixing things.

this could be good, i see now. ve vill all march together like gut
little vorkers and ve vill sing happy songs, for uncle joe, er sam.

you know rose colored glasses work really well shooting in certain
light conditions. not so much in the real world.

I think I need to get a job where someone else gets to worry all night
about this ****, i'll just worry my empty little head about whether I
should fish the Madison this weekend, or maybe the Clearwater? what
do you think?

john

knuclehead

On 2010-01-21 20:57:59 -0500, jh said:

On Jan 21, 5:50*pm, Giles wrote:
On Jan 21, 6:33*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:

"jh" wrote in message

John

P.s. I'll save Giles the trouble

idiot

you didn't really have to add that last part. You've clearly shown your
intellect without tacking on such a concise self-descriptive tag after
your
name.......

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * sheesh!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * Tom

Nicely said.

I like that.

giles
like, who wouldn't have guessed, right? * * *

ok, i'm begining to get it - what we need then is good income, but not
income at the expense of others- that about right? Also, since its
health insurance is too profitable for the ins. co's - they need to be
eliminated. I think I'm catching on.

What about say, auto insurance, liability insurance for contractors?
(there is good one to eliminate- lets start on that one next-ok?
Someone is making too much here, (I just lost $25,000 worth of small
equipment yesterday to theft - insurance is already denying coverage)

how about work comp? i like the idea of eliminating those guys too.-
they cost me a fortune every year - obviously that has to be wrong. I
mean for structural steel work, i pay almost as mcuh insurance as I do
wages (75% IIRC)

And pensions- multiemployer pension funds are in deep dark **** right
now, yet they are a huge expense for those of us unlucky enough to pay
into them, and are financially liable for them if they fail (thank you
IRS). We need to get started on those while we are fixing things.

this could be good, i see now. ve vill all march together like gut
little vorkers and ve vill sing happy songs, for uncle joe, er sam.

you know rose colored glasses work really well shooting in certain
light conditions. not so much in the real world.

I think I need to get a job where someone else gets to worry all night
about this ****, i'll just worry my empty little head about whether I
should fish the Madison this weekend, or maybe the Clearwater? what
do you think?

john

knuclehead

John, you are forgetting: "From each according to his ability, to each
according to his need ." *That's* what most of these liberal,
progressive mutton heads believe and *want*. But, it doesn't work,
does it? Try telling them that.

Madison works for me. Enjoy. I'll be fishing delayed harvest this
week-end - stocked trout that have wintered over. Come May I will move
north to New England and fish my beloved Rapid River.

Dave