Fly shop in Thailand (long0

Interesting post from Henry Komesota on FF@ that you might enjoy

"Bonnie and I had dinner over at the Borgers last night. I haven't
seen Gary all summer and it was good to catch up with Gary and his
wife, Nancy.

Gary has been consulting in Thailand for Targus. He has been there
for 9 weeks reorganizing the company. They have a fly tying operation
employing about a 100 tiers, and Targus supplies several million
flies a year with this and a second factory. He gave Bonnie and I a
slide show that he has prepared for several venues. I've never seen
how flies are tied commercially and it was a fascinating look a the
operation of a major supplier.

They have a license with the government that allows them to import
raw materials without tariffs but they have to prove that all the
materials are subsequently exported as finished flies. So there is a
rigorous accounting of the supplies.

Each tier is issued all the materials necessary to tie the flies they
are assigned. Each fly must be tied to match the prototypical fly.
They supply materials in batches sufficient to tie 50 dozen flies.
That is the minimum batch for a tier. The tiers specialize in the
flies they tie. Some tie only dries, others only sal****er, and
others steelhead and salmon patterns, etc.

Some workers only sort hackle, separating them by color and size.
Others do the same for other materials such as dubbing. They weight
the dubbing out in grams and supply only the amount necessary to tie
up the 50 dozen flies. They have color charts and materials
specifications so that the materials are consistent batch to batch.
Some they buy but some they manufacture - more on that later.

The hooks are counted out and every hook is accounted for. They have
a department whose only function is to catalogue, distribute and
account for the hooks. Another department does only the epoxy work
and their epoxy heads are perfect with no bubbles.

The tiers submit their flies and every fly is catalogued as to the
pattern, size and the tier. They have the ability to place a UPC code
on individual flies if the buyer desires it.

I always believed that the commercial tiers use inexpensive products
such as grade 3 Whiting necks. Gary corrected my preconception. This
operation uses grade I and II Whiting necks, and high quality hooks
that cost them 10 cents a hook wholesale. They use the best quality
materials. This particular factory makes only the highest quality
flies. Gary showed me some samples and they are as good or better
than any commercial flies that I have seen. They are way better than
the flies I tie for myself. The skill of these tiers is incredible
but they do this for 8 hours a day, year after year.

This tying operation is not a sweat shop operation. The operation is
in a modern 4 story building with the various floors segregated for
it's function such as materials, quality control, administration,
tieing, etc. There is even a cafeteria where the workers can buy
dinner for about 70 cents.

This is the future of fly tieing. The workers specialize in one job,
and they are experts in it. If you grade hackle for 8 hours a day.
every day for 10 years, you become better at grading hackle than
almost anybody else on earth.

The attention to detail is incredible. Because of the computerization
and the need to catalog material and production, they are now going
to do a study to see how many flies can be tied from a specific
material. They will know, for example, how many dry flies of various
sizes they can get from a grizzly Whiting #1 neck vs a #2 neck, or if
there is a difference between the #1 Dun necks or #1 Grizzly neck as
to the number and quality of flies that each one will provide.

Most of us know Targus as a supplier of hooks. Interestingly, they
got into hooks because their tying operation used so many hooks that
they expanded into becoming a hook supplier. Gary says they are
expanding their hook operation and have redesigned their lines to
have the strongest hooks in the industry. I haven't tied on Targus
hooks but I've seen prototypes and they look good. Their price point
is less than the major manufacturers. I really am a fan of the Tiemco
921 hook which Tiemco has discontinued. Targus is making a model 921
which looks identical and they are making it in a size 20 which has
been one of my favorites of small flies. The hook is a 2XS so the #20
is essentially a very wide gape size 22 hook.

Gary Showed me a new synthetic seal fur substitute that Targus will
bring out next year. I've got to say that it looks great. It doesn't
have the translucence of seal but the synthetic fur is fine and has a
sheen that is just magical. It really makes great flies. It can be
chopped and blended and would make a great material for nymph
dubbing. i can't reveal the name at this time. They also have a new
craft fur that is longer than the craft furs that are now available.

I was really surprised at the amount of care and detail that goes
into a commercial operation of that size. It is a factory in the
truest sense of the word where raw materials come in one end and
consistent, high quality products come out of the other. If you have
the opportunity to see Gary give this particular program, I recommend
it.

I have no financial interest in Targus.

Regards henry

-Indian Joe adds -naturally this brought out many post about low wages etc.
but Henry responded that people were standing in line for jobs at factory
and most of the workers earn more than lawyers and accountants in that
country.-

"Joe McIntosh" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Interesting post from Henry Komesota on FF@ that you might enjoy

Very interesting. Still, I hope it is not "the future of flytieing" (sic).

TL
MC

Mike Connor wrote:

"Joe McIntosh" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Interesting post from Henry Komesota on FF@ that you might enjoy

Very interesting. Still, I hope it is not "the future of flytieing" (sic).

Why do you hope not? (Quite apart from its already being the present,
rather than the future, of fly tying).

I'd like to see a size 18 Phesant Tail nymph with a UPC code on it.

Sorry. Could not resist the wise ass reply.


Lou T

"JR" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Mike Connor wrote:

"Joe McIntosh" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Interesting post from Henry Komesota on FF@ that you might enjoy

Very interesting. Still, I hope it is not "the future of flytieing"
(sic).

Why do you hope not? (Quite apart from its already being the present,
rather than the future, of fly tying).

Because that is not fly-tying, it is fly-manufacture. Flydressing is an
integral part of the flyfishing experience for many, and this is one of the
things which makes it great. Practically all innovations and "progress"
have been made by dedicated and gifted amateurs. One of the last "hobby"
bastions where this is possible. Flies are tied for specific purposes. to
imitate specific creatures or have specific properties, which the angler has
observed or eruiert. Some developments have taken place over decades. Often
the effort of an individual, or a small group.

The internet synergy here has caused massive and short term leaps in
knowledge, tackle and techniques. This adds to the anticipation and
excitement, and adds very considerably to the enjoyment of fishing, as did
the making of all the other tackle, many years ago, (of which, those who
made it, were inordinately proud, and rightly so), and still does for for
some very few. This has however, now become the almost exclusive domain of
large manufacturers. The "best" is no longer a personal effort, but a matter
of a well filled wallet. At least, so we are continually led to believe.

If you can not do it, your children will not learn to do it either, you
simply can
not show them. All you can then do, is hope they also have enough money,
and the opportunity, to do all these wonderful things. That is not at all
the same thing

The commercialisation of fly-fishing generally is already well advanced, and
things like this detract even more from it. The commercialisation of any
sport or pastime invariably has very unpleasant side effects. Money becomes
the driving force, and passion fades.

If one is able to buy "perfect" flies, at mass produced prices, then many
will simply do so, thereby losing out themselves, as they will never know
the joy of making their own, and also thereby undermining long tradition.

Standardisation is also the inevitable result of such developments.
Innovation and ideas are often discouraged as a result.

If "cheap" fishimg is your aim, then there are other and far better ways of
doing it, than relying on commercial products.

Somebody who buys all this stuff, manufactured flies, high end manufactured
rods, reels etc etc, is missing out on a great deal, and also shifting the
perspective of others who might otherwise take a different path. Angling,
amd especially flydressing, are contemplative pastimes. Commercialising them
to the nth degree, removes a great deal of the contemplation, stifles
discussion, and gives people entirely the wrong idea of what fishing is all
about.

TL
MC

From: "Mike Connor"

Because that is not fly-tying, it is fly-manufacture. Flydressing is an
integral part of the flyfishing experience for many, and this is one of the
things which makes it great.

Indeed. I began learning to tie at about the same time I began flyfishing. The
pleasure I derive from the fishing would be greatly diminished if I fished with
store bought flies. Every fly I carry was either tied by me or given to me by
another angler.

Flies are tied for specific purposes. to
imitate specific creatures or have specific properties, which the angler has
observed or eruiert.

Ineed again. Many of my patterns are modifications of "standard" tie that have
been altered to suit my preferences/observations.

Good to see you back, Mike.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

From: "Mike Connor"

eruiert.

Please elucidate.

Op -- the semi-edukated--

On 06 Dec 2003 19:38:04 GMT, (Lat705) wrote:

I'd like to see a size 18 Phesant Tail nymph with a UPC code on it.

Sorry. Could not resist the wise ass reply.


Lou T

The way I'd do it would be to stick the hook through one end of the
code strip and lay the fly on top of the strip.

What I'd like to see is how they ship a thousand of them in one box
without crushing them or paying a very large sum in packaging.
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Heck, there are days when I'd be happy to see the hole in the eye of a size
18 anything, nevermind some pinprick sized barcode. But as for the UPC
code - it is definitely doable - but it sure wouldn't meet the UPC council
specs!

Jim Ray

--
email SPAM countermeasures require removal of allnails to reply
"Lat705" wrote in message
...
I'd like to see a size 18 Phesant Tail nymph with a UPC code on it.

Sorry. Could not resist the wise ass reply.


Lou T

On 06 Dec 2003 21:08:20 GMT, ojunk (George Adams)
wrote:

From: "Mike Connor"

Because that is not fly-tying, it is fly-manufacture. Flydressing is an
integral part of the flyfishing experience for many, and this is one of the
things which makes it great.

Indeed. I began learning to tie at about the same time I began flyfishing. The
pleasure I derive from the fishing would be greatly diminished if I fished with
store bought flies.

But it's great for those of us who haven't the time or the patience or
the talent or, in my case, much interest, in tying their own flies.
If I had to tie my own flies in order to fly fish, I'd hand over my
KPOS rods to my boss and my one buddy who fly fishes and go right back
to spinning gear. Or even plug casting. I won't say I'd go to bait
fishing or trolling, but it'd be about the same for me as those
would. (not a slam at bait fishers, btw, I just don't like to do it.
(and, yes, I do know how to put on a worm or a minnow and have done
it.))
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli