Lunker

On May 20, 4:22*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 09:55:55 -0600, rw wrote:
On 5/20/10 8:55 AM, Wayne Harrison wrote:
*wrote

What is your and other's in the group, favorite white meat salt water
fish?

JT

wahoo is my favorite sal****er meatfish for eating...and the catching is
fun too. *not much on freshwater fish, unless someone has a special
seasoning. freshwater fish require seasoning to make them worth the
culinary effort. *dolphin, wahoo, tuna, striped bass...even shark....a bit
of ketchup (heinz only) and i'm good to go!

jeff (a friend has discovered blowfish as tasty too)

sal****er, for me: *wahoo; dolphin; puppy drum; tuna; flounder (fully
skinned). *oh, and pompano, if they are really big.

freshwater: *rainbows, if cooked stream side within an hour of their
catching. *skillet, salt'pep, butter. *otherwise, no thanks.

yfitp
wayno

One time years ago in the Boundary Waters of Minnesota we caught, in one
day, walleye, pike, smallmouth bass, and huge pumpkinseed sunfish and we
had a cook off. The order of preference was pike, walleye, sunfish, bass..

My favorite sushi is yellowtail amberjack (hamachi), followed closely by
toro, the fatty belly meat of bluefin tuna. My favorite cooked sal****er
fish is baked striped bass, but I haven't had it in a long, long time.
Barracuda is surprisingly good.

It is very tasty, but be extremely careful with barracuda - while it's not
_likely_, it can lead to serious illness/"food poisoning" (ciguatera). *I'd
advise anyone considering eating any to at least read up on it before consuming
any so they know and understand the risks, but hey, to each there own.

HTH,
R

Generally speaking, blue-water cuda are OK, but lagoon cuda are not.

My second favorite after yellow fin.

Always took lime, wasabe, and soya out in any boat in the islands,
along with a SHARP fillet knife.

cheers

oz, who finds never-frozen sashimi of any kind impossible to find in
the Ozarks

On May 21, 9:12*am, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2010 00:07:03 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:
On May 20, 8:55*am, rw wrote:
On 5/20/10 8:55 AM, Wayne Harrison wrote:

*wrote

What is your and other's in the group, favorite white meat salt water
fish?

JT

wahoo is my favorite sal****er meatfish for eating...and the catching is
fun too. *not much on freshwater fish, unless someone has a special
seasoning. freshwater fish require seasoning to make them worth the
culinary effort. *dolphin, wahoo, tuna, striped bass...even shark....a bit
of ketchup (heinz only) and i'm good to go!

jeff (a friend has discovered blowfish as tasty too)

sal****er, for me: *wahoo; dolphin; puppy drum; tuna; flounder (fully
skinned). *oh, and pompano, if they are really big.

freshwater: *rainbows, if cooked stream side within an hour of their
catching. *skillet, salt'pep, butter. *otherwise, no thanks.

yfitp
wayno

One time years ago in the Boundary Waters of Minnesota we caught, in one
day, walleye, pike, smallmouth bass, and huge pumpkinseed sunfish and we
had a cook off. The order of preference was pike, walleye, sunfish, bass.

My favorite sushi is yellowtail amberjack (hamachi), followed closely by
toro, the fatty belly meat of bluefin tuna. My favorite cooked sal****er
fish is baked striped bass, but I haven't had it in a long, long time.
Barracuda is surprisingly good.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Canned smoked Pacific Albacore Toro is wonderful stuff. There is a
couple who work out of Eagle Harbor, Bainbridge Island, who sell a
hook and line caught Toro under the brand name "Ocean Tuna." They work
a sail assisted deep blue sea tuna troller ("Ocean"). *They specialize
in sashimi grade Albacore and smoked Toro.

Dave

I've never tried it, so I can't and won't knock it, but it sounds, well, "odd."
And not only because I've never even heard of Albacore "Toro" used in "sushi".
And for the picky, I'm using "sushi,""toro" and "maguro" as they are most
commonly used in the US without getting into the minutiae of "ahi" versus
"maguro," the variants of "toro," nigiri, sashimi, etc. save for one point - are
you considering "toro" as more of a cut (from the belly) or as _toro_ (again
without the individual "grades" therein)? *I assume the former - AFAIK/IME,
technically, "toro" is bluefin. *I don't know if it is limited to Pacific
bluefin or can be all bluefin.

*Have you had fresh "toro" (not merely "tuna" in an average sushi bar, often
called "maguro" and/or "ahi")? *To me, a big part of the appeal of actual toro
is the almost "creamy" texture of it raw (esp. if the place/chef in question
further separates into the "grades" of toro). *Again, I can't speak from
experience, but I'd think that smoking it would result in greatly changing the
texture/mouth feel and while it might still be discernable from smoked loin, the
difference would be much reduced - ???

Have you had/compared the four permutations of this - "regular" tuna (maguro),
both raw and smoked and the "toro" both raw and smoked? *How about from the same
fish (either literally the same fish or just the same type)? *I've had smoked
tuna, both done by others as well as what we've caught and prepared, and I like
it, but it has been loin, what you are likely to get as "maguro" or "ahi" in
most sushi places in the US that I've been (and I've been to a fair number
across the US).

TC,
R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well your comments and knowledge on this are way out of my experience
or knowledge range. On the sushi front its been years since I
regularly indulged in restaurant sushi in either the "we got the
contract so lets raise Saki/sushi hell tonite" sense or even the reg
lunch rotation sense. In this area (Pugetopolis) most of the burbs
have places that do sushi, and Seattle has dozens.

The reliables are mostly in the "ID," the International District,
(read Chinatown) next to the downtown financial district.
NOWADAYS . . . I personally rely on Uwajimaya, a huge pan-Asian super
market+ because my knowledgeable shortlist has gone the way of all
things, and frankly I don't go into the City as much anymore. But if I
am in town, its the ID and/or Pike Street Market.

HOWEVER . . . Uwajimaya's is always good, the sushi guys are real, and
the material is first rate. Some of the best IMHO is sushi made from
Northwest specials, like Geoduck clams, but in competent hands, fresh
King salmon, Copper River salmon etc . . . Its all good commissary.

As per Toro . . . Ive had some raw, not often, as sushi, but never
developed any particular knowledge of same. (Smoked Eel was my
favorite) And I cannot offer any comparisons of the canned smoked
albacore I mentioned with others of this type. I just buy it from the
folks who go out and catch it, then can it. I make it into a lite pate
typically, serve it on good crackers (or celery even), with decent
beer, or a nice modest Orvieto or some stock Alice White chardonnay.
Its probably a whole nuther thing fresh.

Dave

On May 21, 2:08*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2010 12:35:45 -0400, "Wayne Harrison" wrote:

On May 20, 8:55 am, rw wrote:
On 5/20/10 8:55 AM, Wayne Harrison wrote:

My favorite sushi is yellowtail amberjack (hamachi), followed closely by
toro, the fatty belly meat of bluefin tuna. My favorite cooked sal****er
fish is baked striped bass, but I haven't had it in a long, long time.
Barracuda is surprisingly good.

* *sorry about the deletions, richard; but my knowledge in this area is
minimal, compared to yours.

* *in fact, my consumption of sashimi began only about 6 mos. ago, with
standard bar tuna. *i did it on a dare, having never dreamed i could eat raw
fish of any grade or kind. *look how wrong you can be. *i now have gone
through selections at several local japanese spots, and have discovered my
favorite, along with my favorite order: *tuna tartar, which is actually a
marinade with strong wasabi, strips of ginger, and a "secret ingredient" in
wasabi soy bowls. *and yellowtail is another fave.
* *i would bet , steve, that your experience has come from environs other
than stanley...

* *richard, do you have a favorite spot in the big easy?

Yep - my place, with stuff we've caught and prepped, or with stuff purchased.
with Rouse's grocery being a close second (and their sushi variety is about what
one would expect from a grocery - tuna, salmon, shrimp/"ebi" *- basically, a
"bawled" shrimp on rice with a nori belt - and spicy tuna and California rolls,
etc. *Nothing even slightly unusual (like, say, uni), just "standard" (US)
stuff, but fresh and a good value for such. They actually have a "sushi chef" at
each store and they make it right there and put in the cold cabinet, but it's
not really a sushi bar per se. *It's sorta like "fast food," but healthier and
IMO, better. *Frankly, if you were in NO and wanted to grab some sushi as a
light lunch, that's where I'd suggest, esp. if you are a "sushi novice."

But that said, and IMO, NO isn't really a "sushi" kind of town, or perhaps more
accurately, most folks I know tend to go with more traditional NO food when
there. *There are sushi bars there, but I cannot recommend one as a favorite.
However, lil' ol' Ocean Springs, MS now has several decent places, which is
where we eat sushi out "locally." *We also make a lot of ceviche (basically,
fish "cooked" in lime juice - it isn't "cooked" by heat)

Weirdly, the best sushi place I've been to in the US was at the Swan Resort at
Walt Disney World (Fla). *It was actually run by Westin and owned by a Japanese
businessman/firm and had all sorts of Japanese stuff flown in daily, including
mini-bar stock. *Another weird thing was the bar prices - a generous hand pour -
like a 2-plus oz. - of JW Blue, neat, rocks or with whatever mixer? *12..00USD. A
glass of Kendall-Jackson NV grocery-store chardoncooler (what, 15.00 a bottle or
something)? *18.00. *A bottle of Bud? *8.00 or so (best as I remember the menu).
The bartender told me Japanese people would come in and order the damned Bud
like they were going to stop making it the next day and mention that the Blue
was what they drank at home (in Japan, not necessarily literally at home).. It
wasn't the first time I'd seen the almost-fanatical reaction to US beer and
cigarettes by Japanese businesspeople, but this was _weird_ IMO. *It's been
several years since we were there, so ??? as to current situation there. *IAC,
the sushi there was fan-damned-tasitic (and IIRC, some stuff came from the US,
like the uni and much/most of the tuna).

I don't know for certain, but I've been told by chefs/owners that much of the
"standard" stuff (like tuna) in the US comes from a relatively few "top of the
supplier chain" sources regardless of how it filters down through the chain and
it is the handling once delivered to the sushi bar that makes most of the
difference. *Also, be careful about paying a premium for certain fish unless you
know what you are looking at and eating as you're liable to get a much
lesser-priced substitute.

TC,
R





yfitons
wayno- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually my most recent gastronomic event was last weekends', 2 day,
Second Annual Crayfish boil offered up by a NO expatriate. Saturday
afternoon started with deepfried alligator, fried Okra balls, some
Asian monster shrimp, diff salads and vegs, some weird chicken on
skewers. With some well behaved NW wines and beers. Then things got
real serious.

"BOILS." There were 3 or 4,boils I think. The media liquid appeared to
be a thick rolling emulsion of rust red Cajun stuff, into which went
big mesh sacks of live crayfish flown in night before from New
Orleans, turkey necks, garlic roses, potatoes, sweetcorn, mushrooms,
flown-in sausages, all added in a precice sequence, all the "BUGS"
etc., then spilled out steaming onto a fresh 4x8 sheet of plywood.

Heaps of Bug carapace etc., in front of each participant. Huge
waterglass sized multi-shot what the **** rum and vodka drinks etc.
Round after round, thru the last serious finishers of the last bug,
and the last little pecan tart, and Dr John growl, Sunday night.

IMHO The Louisiana style Crayfish Eatathon could be an Olympic trial
event. Apparently I have survived the real thing and definitly its a
new one for me.

Dave

On 5/21/10 10:24 PM, MajorOz wrote:

Generally speaking, blue-water cuda are OK, but lagoon cuda are not.

That's because the lagoon cuda eat poisonous reef fish.

I caught this one not long ago in the Yucatan:

http://www.ruralnetwork.net/~troutbu.../barracuda.jpg

It's not real big -- maybe 10lbs -- but it was pretty cool. They're
tough to entice to a fly. They usually spook, and if they don't you have
to strip as fast as possible.

I kept it and gave it to the guide. He was delighted -- just about the
best eating fish available in those parts. He didn't seem any the worse
for wear the next day.

Here's a more scenic shot from the Yucatan:

http://www.ruralnetwork.net/~troutbum/cuda/IMG_0372.jpg

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Sat, 22 May 2010 10:15:02 -0600, rw wrote:

On 5/21/10 10:24 PM, MajorOz wrote:

Generally speaking, blue-water cuda are OK, but lagoon cuda are not.

That's because the lagoon cuda eat poisonous reef fish.

No and not really/exactly, at least in the implication put forth. I'm not going
to argue about it - I'm simply going to state my position:

I don't care who anyone thinks to be correct - I would ask that anyone thinking
of consuming barracuda do their own research and satisfy themselves that they
know the risks (or satisfy themselves that they don't believe doing so to be a
risk). While ciguatera is not _always_ fatal, it _can_ be, esp. with kids,
older people, etc. and while there are "levels" of it, you don't want any part
of it.

Simply, ciguatera starts with "algae" (dinoflagellates) and it is not limited to
carnivorous reef fish, "lagoon" or otherwise. I'm not sure what a "lagoon cuda"
is - only young 'cuda are regular shallow-water dwellers, but any of the size
that those likely reading this would consider "eating size" would not likely
limit themselves to being "blue-water" or "shallow water," at least insofar as
the normal range of habitat - barracuda are not deep-water fish. The location
of the catch is not an indicator, nor is any other "outwardly visible" sign,
freshness of the fish, storage, etc., nor can it be cooked out by any reasonable
cooking method.

IAC, I'd advise anyone who plans on catching _any_ potential source fish, but
esp. barracuda, or otherwise consuming them "fresh" - i.e., not from a
commercial source, to get a ciguatera test kit. They aren't expensive. And if
you don't want to bother with a kit, limit your risk as much as possible by
eating only skinless filets - no other parts, no soups made with it or stock
from them, etc.

And FWIW, anyone traveling to "tropical" waters and consuming "local" seafood,
from any source, fresh-caught or at a restaurant, would be advised to at least
be familiar with what ciguatera is and the other potential sources

HTH,
R

On 5/22/10 2:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2010 10:15:02 -0600, wrote:

On 5/21/10 10:24 PM, MajorOz wrote:

Generally speaking, blue-water cuda are OK, but lagoon cuda are not.

That's because the lagoon cuda eat poisonous reef fish.

No and not really/exactly, at least in the implication put forth. I'm not going
to argue about it - I'm simply going to state my position:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Sat, 22 May 2010 01:39:32 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:


Actually my most recent gastronomic event was last weekends', 2 day,
Second Annual Crayfish boil offered up by a NO expatriate. Saturday
afternoon started with deepfried alligator, fried Okra balls, some
Asian monster shrimp, diff salads and vegs, some weird chicken on
skewers. With some well behaved NW wines and beers. Then things got
real serious.

"BOILS." There were 3 or 4,boils I think. The media liquid appeared to
be a thick rolling emulsion of rust red Cajun stuff, into which went
big mesh sacks of live crayfish flown in night before from New
Orleans, turkey necks, garlic roses, potatoes, sweetcorn, mushrooms,
flown-in sausages, all added in a precice sequence, all the "BUGS"
etc., then spilled out steaming onto a fresh 4x8 sheet of plywood.

Heaps of Bug carapace etc., in front of each participant. Huge
waterglass sized multi-shot what the **** rum and vodka drinks etc.
Round after round, thru the last serious finishers of the last bug,
and the last little pecan tart, and Dr John growl, Sunday night.

IMHO The Louisiana style Crayfish Eatathon could be an Olympic trial
event. Apparently I have survived the real thing and definitly its a
new one for me.

Dave

Other than the drinks, it sounds like typical S. Louisiana doin's. Glad you
enjoyed it. With most "Cajuns" I know down here, it's beer or (and often AND)
whiskey, most often IME, Crown, Beam, Jack or Turkey. I know some that can and
semi-regularly do drink a case or so of beer from morning until dark-thirty and
then switch to Crown and cola/Sprite and toss the cap on a half-gallon...and
still be vertical and dancing at 2AM - if you ain't used to such, start slowly
in the late fall or early spring, because if you try it in the summer and aren't
used to it, you'll regret it for about 2 weeks...

TC,
R

On Fri, 21 May 2010 23:37:15 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:

On May 21, 9:12*am, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2010 00:07:03 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:
On May 20, 8:55*am, rw wrote:
On 5/20/10 8:55 AM, Wayne Harrison wrote:

*wrote

What is your and other's in the group, favorite white meat salt water
fish?

JT

wahoo is my favorite sal****er meatfish for eating...and the catching is
fun too. *not much on freshwater fish, unless someone has a special
seasoning. freshwater fish require seasoning to make them worth the
culinary effort. *dolphin, wahoo, tuna, striped bass...even shark...a bit
of ketchup (heinz only) and i'm good to go!

jeff (a friend has discovered blowfish as tasty too)

sal****er, for me: *wahoo; dolphin; puppy drum; tuna; flounder (fully
skinned). *oh, and pompano, if they are really big.

freshwater: *rainbows, if cooked stream side within an hour of their
catching. *skillet, salt'pep, butter. *otherwise, no thanks.

yfitp
wayno

One time years ago in the Boundary Waters of Minnesota we caught, in one
day, walleye, pike, smallmouth bass, and huge pumpkinseed sunfish and we
had a cook off. The order of preference was pike, walleye, sunfish, bass.

My favorite sushi is yellowtail amberjack (hamachi), followed closely by
toro, the fatty belly meat of bluefin tuna. My favorite cooked sal****er
fish is baked striped bass, but I haven't had it in a long, long time.
Barracuda is surprisingly good.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Canned smoked Pacific Albacore Toro is wonderful stuff. There is a
couple who work out of Eagle Harbor, Bainbridge Island, who sell a
hook and line caught Toro under the brand name "Ocean Tuna." They work
a sail assisted deep blue sea tuna troller ("Ocean"). *They specialize
in sashimi grade Albacore and smoked Toro.

Dave

I've never tried it, so I can't and won't knock it, but it sounds, well, "odd."
And not only because I've never even heard of Albacore "Toro" used in "sushi".
And for the picky, I'm using "sushi,""toro" and "maguro" as they are most
commonly used in the US without getting into the minutiae of "ahi" versus
"maguro," the variants of "toro," nigiri, sashimi, etc. save for one point - are
you considering "toro" as more of a cut (from the belly) or as _toro_ (again
without the individual "grades" therein)? *I assume the former - AFAIK/IME,
technically, "toro" is bluefin. *I don't know if it is limited to Pacific
bluefin or can be all bluefin.

*Have you had fresh "toro" (not merely "tuna" in an average sushi bar, often
called "maguro" and/or "ahi")? *To me, a big part of the appeal of actual toro
is the almost "creamy" texture of it raw (esp. if the place/chef in question
further separates into the "grades" of toro). *Again, I can't speak from
experience, but I'd think that smoking it would result in greatly changing the
texture/mouth feel and while it might still be discernable from smoked loin, the
difference would be much reduced - ???

Have you had/compared the four permutations of this - "regular" tuna (maguro),
both raw and smoked and the "toro" both raw and smoked? *How about from the same
fish (either literally the same fish or just the same type)? *I've had smoked
tuna, both done by others as well as what we've caught and prepared, and I like
it, but it has been loin, what you are likely to get as "maguro" or "ahi" in
most sushi places in the US that I've been (and I've been to a fair number
across the US).

TC,
R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well your comments and knowledge on this are way out of my experience
or knowledge range. On the sushi front its been years since I
regularly indulged in restaurant sushi in either the "we got the
contract so lets raise Saki/sushi hell tonite" sense or even the reg
lunch rotation sense. In this area (Pugetopolis) most of the burbs
have places that do sushi, and Seattle has dozens.

The reliables are mostly in the "ID," the International District,
(read Chinatown) next to the downtown financial district.
NOWADAYS . . . I personally rely on Uwajimaya, a huge pan-Asian super
market+ because my knowledgeable shortlist has gone the way of all
things, and frankly I don't go into the City as much anymore. But if I
am in town, its the ID and/or Pike Street Market.

HOWEVER . . . Uwajimaya's is always good, the sushi guys are real, and
the material is first rate. Some of the best IMHO is sushi made from
Northwest specials, like Geoduck clams, but in competent hands, fresh
King salmon, Copper River salmon etc . . . Its all good commissary.

As per Toro . . . Ive had some raw, not often, as sushi, but never
developed any particular knowledge of same. (Smoked Eel was my
favorite) And I cannot offer any comparisons of the canned smoked
albacore I mentioned with others of this type. I just buy it from the
folks who go out and catch it, then can it. I make it into a lite pate
typically, serve it on good crackers (or celery even), with decent
beer, or a nice modest Orvieto or some stock Alice White chardonnay.
Its probably a whole nuther thing fresh.

Dave

Ah. And for the record, I don't consider myself any sort of sushi expert. I
enjoy it, particularly because I like as little heat as possible on both fish
and beef - I'd just as soon have both at least VERY rare, if not raw* - and I
got lucky many years ago in that I met and became friends with a Japanese sushi
chef. I've also spent much more time around sal****er, both fishing it as well
as consuming its bounty, if you will, than anything else, continuing a
long-standing family precedence. A few other things contributed (I owned a
seafood supply company at one time) to my knowledge. But all that said, I've
only pursued any knowledge to the point it satisfied my curiosity or business
requirement(s), so I'm well aware that there is much I do not know.

Anyhoo, thanks for the info toro, but I _suspect_, but do not know of
course, that what they are calling "smoked toro" is really just smoked belly
meat from an albacore and if it were raw, it would not be recognizable as _toro_
in the sushi sense. Hell, if you have regular contact with these folks, I'd be
curious to see what they say about it.

* As an aside, if you are a fan of raw red meat, find an Ethiopian place and try
"kitfo," basically, a spicy "steak tartare" or a "Middle Eastern"/Lebanese
place, try _raw_ kibbe ("kibbe nayyeh" - gen. lamb, but it's good with beef,
too, if not "traditional," for whatever that means nowadays...).

As to recipes with smoked tuna, we typically make a spread/pate of it, too - a
mix of _light_ "Philly" cream cheese (Neufchatel cheese), Creole cream cheese
(you'll either have to make it or sub creme fraiche as you're not likely to find
the former), a little real mayo (homemade if available/time), some Tony's
(Chachere's) Creole seasoning (or Old Bay) and whatever herbs and spices you
like as well as whatever citrus juice. It's a pretty standard treatment for
smoked fish down here and even crabmeat and small cooked shrimp. With the two
latter, canned will work if need be.

TC,
R

On Sat, 22 May 2010 14:49:51 -0600, rw
wrote:

On 5/22/10 2:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2010 10:15:02 -0600, wrote:

On 5/21/10 10:24 PM, MajorOz wrote:

Generally speaking, blue-water cuda are OK, but lagoon cuda are not.

That's because the lagoon cuda eat poisonous reef fish.

No and not really/exactly, at least in the implication put forth. I'm not going
to argue about it - I'm simply going to state my position:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Seriously.

I can't believe anyone reads more than the first line or two of this world
class pedant's posts before clicking on by.

On 2010-05-22 12:15:02 -0400, rw said:


I kept it and gave it to the guide. He was delighted -- just about the
best eating fish available in those parts. He didn't seem any the worse
for wear the next day.

The best civeche I've ever had was while I lived in Panama, and was
made from barracuda. I was reluctant at first to eat it because of the
toxin stories I'd heard. However, I was assured by its maker, a
PanCanal cop, that it was safe. He would bring a batch into the
Chief's Club every month. We'd eat it with fried plantain grown
locally. And lots of beer.

Dave
(who also ate King Crab, battered and fried, in the Chief's Club on
Adak, Alaska. During the fishing season, it was served daily as a
freebe at the bar.)