Some more spill info...

I couldn't tell from reading rdean's post (above) what he was trying to say.
It seemed he was mostly concerned with costs associated with cleaning up the ocean front.

This may be missing a much larger point. This oil volcano may be getting ready to
completely rupture its top, thereby releasing enough oil to threaten the food chain
in the entire Atlantic ocean. Or perhaps even worse.

The following is an alarmist quote plucked from http://www.rense.com/general91/oilor.htm
Do I believe the following?
God only knows. You can find almost anything on the net.
If nothing else, it's an interesting read.


SUMMARY OF EXPECTATIONS

At some point the drilled hole in the earth will enlarge itself beneath the wellhead
to weaken the area the wellhead rests upon. The intense pressure will then push the
wellhead off the hole allowing a direct unrestricted flow of oil, etc.

The hole will continue to increase in size allowing more and more oil to rise into the Gulf.
After several billion barrels of oil have been released, the pressure within the massive
cavity five miles beneath the ocean floor will begin to normalize.

This will allow the water, under the intense pressure at 1 mile deep, to be forced into the
hole and the cavity where the oil was. The temperature at that depth is near 400 degrees,
possibly more.

The water will be vaporized and turned into steam, creating an enormous amount of force,
lifting the Gulf floor. It is difficult to know how much water will go down to the core
and therefore, its not possible to fully calculate the
rise of the floor.

The tsunami wave this will create will be anywhere from 20 to 80 feet high, possibly more.
Then the floor will fall into the now vacant chamber. This is how nature will seal the
hole.

Depending on the height of the tsunami, the ocean debris, oil, and existing structures
that will be washed away on shore and inland, will leave the area from 50 to 200 miles
inland devoid of life. Even if the debris is cleaned up, the contaminants that will be in
the ground and water supply will prohibit re-population of these areas for an unknown
number of years.

(End of scientists information release.) From Tom Buyea FL News Service

Well OK.
I just noticed the above doomsday palaver is from the well-known nut case
Jeff Rense. Interesting stuff, never-the-less.

sandy wrote:
I couldn't tell from reading rdean's post (above) what he was trying to say. ...

Allow me to translate.

The oil spill clean up is going to cost way too much. BP is going
to get screwed, the taxpayer is going to get screwed, money will
be wasted hand over fist just like after Katrina. All you really
have to do is get rid of OSHA and the EPA and the unions, especially
the unions, and all the greedy, unscrupulous folks who were poor
before the disaster anyway, and the the whole clean up can be done
for $29.95.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:14:39 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

sandy wrote:
I couldn't tell from reading rdean's post (above) what he was trying to say. ...

Allow me to translate.

The oil spill clean up is going to cost way too much. BP is going
to get screwed, the taxpayer is going to get screwed, money will
be wasted hand over fist just like after Katrina.

Not quite - no one can predict the future, so there is no way to know if money
_will_ be wasted hand over fist, but every indication thus far points toward it.
And from a financial standpoint, no one, including BP, should "get screwed" in
this.

All you really
have to do is get rid of OSHA and the EPA and the unions, especially
the unions,

No union is involved in this, and the major issue with any involvement by the
EPA or OSHA is those agencies attempting to "shoehorn" the cleanup into existing
rules that aren't truly applicable.

and all the greedy, unscrupulous folks who were poor
before the disaster anyway,

Oops, nope. Thus far, while some of the players involved aren't exactly
wealthy, very few, if any, "poor" people are getting anything (just like the
Katrina aftermath) and likely will not - you cannot compensate an unemployed
person for income they didn't lose, and you cannot compensate, for example, a
roofing laborer or Mickey D's burger-flipper for income loss when they have
suffered none. Most of those who stand to see a windfall in this were at least
moderately comfortable prior to the spill, and the biggest windfall will, again,
go to those at the upper levels of the pyramid.

and the the whole clean up can be done for $29.95.

Never even suggested such a thing.

HTH,
R

wrote:
snip
Most of those who stand to see a windfall in this were at least
moderately comfortable prior to the spill, and the biggest windfall will, again,
go to those at the upper levels of the pyramid.

The biggest windfall will go, as always, to big oil. Everybody
else will get screwed the same way Alaskans got screwed after
Exxon Valdez.

What is funny, in a really perverse sort of way, is watching you
leading the apologia/cheering section for big oil here on a
fly fishing group. Most folks are concerned about the environment
and the people of the Gulf while your biggest concern appears
to be that BP should be able to lawyer their way out of spending
more than a pittance in compensation for the biggest environmental
disaster in US history. Like I said, perverse.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:14:39 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

sandy wrote:
I couldn't tell from reading rdean's post (above) what he was trying to say. ...

Allow me to translate.

The oil spill clean up is going to cost way too much. BP is going
to get screwed, the taxpayer is going to get screwed, money will
be wasted hand over fist just like after Katrina. All you really
have to do is get rid of OSHA and the EPA and the unions, especially
the unions, and all the greedy, unscrupulous folks who were poor
before the disaster anyway, and the the whole clean up can be done
for $29.95.


And speaking of the "poor," the guy that Obama talked about in his speech
yesterday, Mike Pinzone, is hardly "poor":

"Pinzone opened a small pizza shop on the beach 13 years ago and has since
expanded into half a dozen businesses. He has $2 million invested into
businesses along the fishing pier.

Compared with last year, Pinzone is down $100,000 in sales from April through
June at his businesses. Sales at the fish shack have dropped by 90 percent from
$5,000 to $500 on some days. He filed a claim with BP a month ago and has
received two checks totaling $10,000."

I don't think his mentioning April is gonna help his cause much...esp. to
national news media...

Another business person the national media has quoted, a marina owner, says his
income is down 50K, he has had to lay off 3-4 people at the marina's restaurant
(out of a staff of probably 50 at the marina), and while his full claim hasn't
been paid, he, too, has received 10 grand. A quick calculation, knowing what
slippage charges are in the area, would indicate his basically full marina is
grossing well north of 100K a month _on slippage alone_. And if he is seeing
the drastically increased fuel sales, ship's store sales, haul-out charges,
etc., that _some_ marinas are seeing, he well may have done no more than trade
income (and expense) at the marina's restaurant for income (and less expense) at
the actual marina side of things. I do not know the specifics at that marina
and make no claim about anything related to that marina.

Oh, and the "poor" people laid-off? Not a single mention of what they have or
have not received, if anything, either by him or the media. And I'd offer that
these business owners can wait a little longer and take a hit a little better
than one of the waitstaff laid off or a fry cook at the fish shack.

HTH,
R

On Jun 16, 11:14*am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
sandy wrote:
I couldn't tell from reading rdean's post (above) what he was trying to say. ...

Allow me to translate.

The oil spill clean up is going to cost way too much. BP is going
to get screwed, the taxpayer is going to get screwed, money will
be wasted hand over fist just like after Katrina. All you really
have to do is get rid of OSHA and the EPA and the unions, especially
the unions, and all the greedy, unscrupulous folks who were poor
before the disaster anyway, and the the whole clean up can be done
for $29.95.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Yep. I particularly find RDs revelation that all kinds of rip-off are
possible down there in the nether regions. DUHHHH. HELLO?

Doesn't he understand that most of the rest of the country is well
aware of the reputation of La., Texas, Mississippi and So. Florida as
the fraud and corruption capitols of the USA? New Jersey has long
since lost that dishonored position, and Chicago is mostly limited to
the pols. But when it comes to ripping off the people of the USA with
things like endemic Medicare fraud, Corps of Engineers contracting
scams, class action scams, drug money laundering, etc etc, why it's
just no contest as to which part of the country marches to that
drummer.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:51:50 -0500, sandy wrote:

I couldn't tell from reading rdean's post (above) what he was trying to say.

I was simply relaying some numbers to show where this thing _may_ be heading. It
wasn't done specifically for ROFF, so some of it is somewhat out of context.
Simply, the economics of this thing are already ridiculous, but simply alleging
that by saying "a truck driver is making $1500.00 a day," without more to at
least help put it into context, leaves out a lot of necessary info.

It seemed he was mostly concerned with costs associated with cleaning up the ocean front.

In that post as a stand-alone thing, yes. However, that is not my only overall
concern.

This may be missing a much larger point. This oil volcano may be getting ready to
completely rupture its top, thereby releasing enough oil to threaten the food chain
in the entire Atlantic ocean. Or perhaps even worse.

The following is an alarmist quote plucked from http://www.rense.com/general91/oilor.htm
Do I believe the following?
God only knows. You can find almost anything on the net.
If nothing else, it's an interesting read.

It may be interesting, but it is total nonsense. If nothing else, Katrina just
about set the physical limits for "water intrusion" in much of the gulf coast -
there is simply not enough water to get to, much less flood, 50 miles inland,
much less 200. For example, once you are much more than a mile inland in much
of MS, the altitude _rapidly_ increases - for example, there was approximately
30 feet of water at the boat ramp at Diamondhead, MS. However, there are parts
of Diamondhead that are at 35-60 feet elevation above sea level, and even with
30 feet of water _less than one mile away_, some parts stayed above it. 50
miles in would be about Hattiesburg, which is at roughly 150 feet and 200 miles
would be roughly Jackson, at a little over 300 feet (IIRC, 310 at the airport).
IAC, subsurface wells are nothing new, and the "Summary" is gibberish.

TC,
R


SUMMARY OF EXPECTATIONS

At some point the drilled hole in the earth will enlarge itself beneath the wellhead
to weaken the area the wellhead rests upon. The intense pressure will then push the
wellhead off the hole allowing a direct unrestricted flow of oil, etc.

The hole will continue to increase in size allowing more and more oil to rise into the Gulf.
After several billion barrels of oil have been released, the pressure within the massive
cavity five miles beneath the ocean floor will begin to normalize.

This will allow the water, under the intense pressure at 1 mile deep, to be forced into the
hole and the cavity where the oil was. The temperature at that depth is near 400 degrees,
possibly more.

The water will be vaporized and turned into steam, creating an enormous amount of force,
lifting the Gulf floor. It is difficult to know how much water will go down to the core
and therefore, its not possible to fully calculate the
rise of the floor.

The tsunami wave this will create will be anywhere from 20 to 80 feet high, possibly more.
Then the floor will fall into the now vacant chamber. This is how nature will seal the
hole.

Depending on the height of the tsunami, the ocean debris, oil, and existing structures
that will be washed away on shore and inland, will leave the area from 50 to 200 miles
inland devoid of life. Even if the debris is cleaned up, the contaminants that will be in
the ground and water supply will prohibit re-population of these areas for an unknown
number of years.

(End of scientists information release.) From Tom Buyea FL News Service