And speaking of history....

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:41:15 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:

On Sep 22, 10:47*am, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 19:46:10 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:47*pm, wrote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...emarks-preside...

Were there really any "Mexicans" in DC way back then...?

Sheesh,

Maybe this can fill in the blanks. It is from "U.S. Latino Patriots:
From the "American Revolution to Afghanistan, An Overview." By Refugio
I. Rochin and Lionel Fernandez." Ever hear of Galveston? By the way,
there is a statue of General Galvez in D.C.. Isn't he in Mississippi's
version of the history of the Revolution? He fought in Mississippi
didn't he?

(Non sequitur "Hooray for Hispanics in (American) History" snipped)

First, Ha-ha-hee-hee-SNICKER-CHORTLE-SPLORKVANGMU!!

Second, the three contemporaneous Galvez were born in Spain and as Spaniards and
Peninsulares, they would have been offended even at the suggestion that they
were born in "New Spain" - "Mexico" didn't even exist as country when even
Bernardo was born. *"Mexico" would have been, to him, a mere
city/region/province, not an independent country. *The only people who may have
called themselves (a variant of) "Mexican" would not have been anywhere near DC
or even in what is now the US. *Moreover, he looked upon them as savages and
subjects, not equals, roughly equivalent to blacks, "Indians," etc.

And finally, the "idea" of "America" (as in New Spain) came from the Spanish
before there were any "Mexicans" (as in a casual term for citizens of the modern
country), and the same people who came up with the idea of "America" were, as
were the Galvez, very particular about NOT being born in "America" ("Mexico" or
anywhere else), but rather, in Spain. *Even those of the same general social
level who were born later, by necessity, in "New Spain" would not have
identified as "Mexicans" or even "New Spanish," but rather, as Spaniards who
happened to be born in New Spain. *And IAC, about the only people in all of
North or South America who were here "long before America was even an idea" were
the variety of locals dispersed throughout - there were little or no British,
French, Dutch, "Mexicans" and even few Spaniards themselves - and again, any of
those who _might_ have called themselves a variant of "Mexican" would not have
been in what is now the US.

What it _appears_ he means is the US-centric version: The United States of
America _is_ "America," ala the "American Ideal/Dream/etc.," but there he
especially fails because such an "idea" began not only long before there were
any "Mexicans," but long before there was any "New Spain," "Mexico," or idea of
"America" (i.e., an "America" in the New Spain sense that could have possibly
included "Mexicans," had "Mexico" as country in New Spain existed).

Perhaps only someone familiar with history and the Declaration of Independence
would be as amused as I am by a sitting POTUS who is an alleged constitutional
scholar and law professor not only saying this:

"So let me close by saying this. *Long before America was even an idea, this
land of plenty was home to many peoples. *To British and French, to Dutch and
Spanish, to Mexican -- (applause) -- to countless Indian tribes. *We all shared
the same land. *We didn’t always get along. *But over the centuries, what
eventually bound us together -- what made us all Americans -- was not a matter
of blood, it wasn’t a matter of birth. *It was faith and fidelity to the shared
values that we all hold so dear. *We hold these truths to be self-evident, that
all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights: *life and
liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

but the fact that his administration would put the above as the official WH
transcript and include the silly-assed rock concert applause when the
entertainer says the city ("Are you ready to ROCK, insert city name
here?!?!"). *It speaks volumes about this administration. *

Sheesh,
R
...to paraphrase, his ability to lead would not be in so much doubt had he not
been elected President, and, the more corrupt the Fed, the more laws it
wants...etc., etc., etc.....

I suggest you might find interesting the meetings and comments of
Francisco de Miranda on his meetings with Washington, Adams, Hamilton
etc etc, and the AMERICAN Hispanic Sephardic Jewish leaders in Philly
and New York in the mid 1780s. On his visit to your alma mater, Yale,
Miranda attended a class in Hebrew. Could have sat in the same
classroom as you.

You know, "Miranda?" who captured Pensacola from the British and
helped drive the Brits from Natchez, MISSISSIPPI, with a mix of
Spanish, Mexican, Black and Native American troops?

He was a devotee of the "American idea." Or is he verboten because he
was born in Caracas, Venezuela? And were Bernardo O'Higgins (born in
Chillan, Chile) and Jordi Farragut not both "Americans" in the
continental sense?

"Jordi Farragut joined his new country at the beginning of the
American Revolution, initially as a lieutenant in the South Carolina
Navy. He fought the British at Savannah and was captured in Charleston
- Siege of Charleston- in 1780. After being released in a prisoner
exchange, he fought as a volunteer at the Battle of Cowpens and
Wilmington." (Wiki)

I mean the man died in Pascagoula, Mississippi, surely that might
suggest he was an "American."

How about Ben Franklin, he was born in British Occupied Boston? He did
spend much of his adult life in Britain but heck, I still consider him
an "American."

RD by your parsing, none of the founding fathers were Americans.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!,
R
....and SNICKER, too...

Dave

On Sep 22, 1:01*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:41:15 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:
On Sep 22, 10:47*am, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 19:46:10 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:47*pm, wrote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...emarks-preside...

Were there really any "Mexicans" in DC way back then...?

Sheesh,

Maybe this can fill in the blanks. It is from "U.S. Latino Patriots:
From the "American Revolution to Afghanistan, An Overview." By Refugio
I. Rochin and Lionel Fernandez." Ever hear of Galveston? By the way,
there is a statue of General Galvez in D.C.. Isn't he in Mississippi's
version of the history of the Revolution? He fought in Mississippi
didn't he?

(Non sequitur "Hooray for Hispanics in (American) History" snipped)

First, Ha-ha-hee-hee-SNICKER-CHORTLE-SPLORKVANGMU!!

Second, the three contemporaneous Galvez were born in Spain and as Spaniards and
Peninsulares, they would have been offended even at the suggestion that they
were born in "New Spain" - "Mexico" didn't even exist as country when even
Bernardo was born. *"Mexico" would have been, to him, a mere
city/region/province, not an independent country. *The only people who may have
called themselves (a variant of) "Mexican" would not have been anywhere near DC
or even in what is now the US. *Moreover, he looked upon them as savages and
subjects, not equals, roughly equivalent to blacks, "Indians," etc.

And finally, the "idea" of "America" (as in New Spain) came from the Spanish
before there were any "Mexicans" (as in a casual term for citizens of the modern
country), and the same people who came up with the idea of "America" were, as
were the Galvez, very particular about NOT being born in "America" ("Mexico" or
anywhere else), but rather, in Spain. *Even those of the same general social
level who were born later, by necessity, in "New Spain" would not have
identified as "Mexicans" or even "New Spanish," but rather, as Spaniards who
happened to be born in New Spain. *And IAC, about the only people in all of
North or South America who were here "long before America was even an idea" were
the variety of locals dispersed throughout - there were little or no British,
French, Dutch, "Mexicans" and even few Spaniards themselves - and again, any of
those who _might_ have called themselves a variant of "Mexican" would not have
been in what is now the US.

What it _appears_ he means is the US-centric version: The United States of
America _is_ "America," ala the "American Ideal/Dream/etc.," but there he
especially fails because such an "idea" began not only long before there were
any "Mexicans," but long before there was any "New Spain," "Mexico," or idea of
"America" (i.e., an "America" in the New Spain sense that could have possibly
included "Mexicans," had "Mexico" as country in New Spain existed).

Perhaps only someone familiar with history and the Declaration of Independence
would be as amused as I am by a sitting POTUS who is an alleged constitutional
scholar and law professor not only saying this:

"So let me close by saying this. *Long before America was even an idea, this
land of plenty was home to many peoples. *To British and French, to Dutch and
Spanish, to Mexican -- (applause) -- to countless Indian tribes. *We all shared
the same land. *We didn’t always get along. *But over the centuries, what
eventually bound us together -- what made us all Americans -- was not a matter
of blood, it wasn’t a matter of birth. *It was faith and fidelity to the shared
values that we all hold so dear. *We hold these truths to be self-evident, that
all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights: *life and
liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

but the fact that his administration would put the above as the official WH
transcript and include the silly-assed rock concert applause when the
entertainer says the city ("Are you ready to ROCK, insert city name
here?!?!"). *It speaks volumes about this administration. *

Sheesh,
R
...to paraphrase, his ability to lead would not be in so much doubt had he not
been elected President, and, the more corrupt the Fed, the more laws it
wants...etc., etc., etc.....

I suggest you might find interesting the meetings and comments of
Francisco de Miranda on his meetings with Washington, Adams, Hamilton
etc etc, and the AMERICAN Hispanic Sephardic Jewish leaders in Philly
and New York in the mid 1780s. *On his visit to your alma mater, Yale,
Miranda attended a class in Hebrew. Could have sat in the same
classroom as you.

You know, "Miranda?" who captured Pensacola from the British and
helped drive the Brits from Natchez, MISSISSIPPI, with a mix of
Spanish, Mexican, Black and Native American troops?

He was a devotee of the "American idea." *Or is he verboten because he
was born in Caracas, Venezuela? And were Bernardo O'Higgins (born in
Chillan, Chile) and Jordi Farragut not both "Americans" in the
continental sense?

"Jordi Farragut joined his new country at the beginning of the
American Revolution, initially as a lieutenant in the South Carolina
Navy. He fought the British at Savannah and was captured in Charleston
- Siege of Charleston- in 1780. After being released in a prisoner
exchange, he fought as a volunteer at the Battle of Cowpens and
Wilmington." (Wiki)

I mean the man died in Pascagoula, Mississippi, surely that might
suggest he was an "American."

How about Ben Franklin, he was born in British Occupied Boston? He did
spend much of his adult life in Britain but heck, I still consider him
an "American."

RD by your parsing, none of the founding fathers were Americans.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!,
R
...and SNICKER, too...





Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Then of course there is Juan de Miralles, the Cuban merchant/smuggler/
budding Democrat.

"From Cuba, his ships transported uniforms, gun powder, riffles and
other military supplies, as well as rum, wine, candies, flour and
other food stuff needed by the revolutionaries. It is widely believed
that de Miranda saved the Continental Army from being decimated by
scurvy by providing Washington with quinine, of which Spain had the
monopoly, and with Cuban grown limes, a great source of vitamin C."

"De Miralles died at his good friend’s George Washington’s camp in
Morristown, New Jersey, and the future first American president led
the mourners at his funeral."

That would be Morristown New Jersey, where the Revolutionary Army
suffered a worse winter than at Valley Forge, and from which the NJ
militia eviscerated the British Army in the 13 Battles of the Forage
War.

And then there is the $6 million raised by Hispanics/Creoles/Jews and
MEXICANS (app $200 million in today's dollars) used to pay the
Revolutionary Army at Yorktown, not to mention the Hispanic troops who
fought in the siege to defeat Cornwallis. General Washington
apparently appreciated the help.

I see the real history of our country as a unifying force for our
great country and its diverse people. The assault on our real US
history is led by people like David Barton, a strutting, Christian/
Fascist, with an armband and a copykat dark near uniform.

Dave

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:50:44 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:

(More of "Da Sarge's History o' Hispanics" sni-i-i-pped)

So, when does Gerard Depardieu discover America...?

Sheesh,
R
....and just how does rich Corinthian leather figure into all of this...?