The politics of nature

Ken Fortenberry wrote in
y.com:

Dave LaCourse wrote:
Ken Fortenberry writes:

The story going around ...

Hogwash. ...

If you want to call it hogwash AFTER you read it, fine, but
at least read it first. Debka has an agenda and they make no
bones about it, but I find a lot of their stuff at least as
credible as the outrageous lies spewed forth by the US military.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=743


From that link:

******************
A number of questions are raised by the incredibly bedraggled, tired and
crushed condition of this once savage, dapper and pampered ruler who was
discovered in a hole in the ground on Saturday, December 13:

1. The length and state of his hair indicated he had not seen a barber or
even had a shampoo for several weeks.

2. The wild state of his beard indicated he had not shaved for the same
period

3. The hole dug in the floor of a cellar in a farm compound near Tikrit
was primitive indeed – 6ft across and 8ft across with minimal sanitary
arrangements - a far cry from his opulent palaces.

4. Saddam looked beaten and hungry.

5. Detained trying to escape were two unidentified men. Left with him
were two AK-47 assault guns and a pistol, none of which were used.

6. The hole had only one opening. It was not only camouflaged with mud
and bricks – it was blocked. He could not have climbed out without
someone on the outside removing the covering.

7. And most important, $750,000 in 100-dollar notes were found with him
(a pittance for his captors who expected a $25m reward)– but no
communications equipment of any kind, whether cell phone or even a
carrier pigeon for contacting the outside world.

According to DEBKAfile analysts, these seven anomalies point to one
conclusion: Saddam Hussein was not in hiding; he was a prisoner.
********************

Ken-

This is thready, at best. They don't even bother to find some loony
"witness" to talk about this.

He was only carrying two AK-47's and a pistol, and he only had 750K in
cash, so he was obviously a prisoner.

He's been running and hiding in a war zone for months. Perhaps that
might serve as an explanation for observations 1, 2, and 4. Hell, I
looked beaten and hungry after I graded 41 final exams and 41 term papers
solo on a 4-day deadline. I only felt like I was in captivity, though I
was really free to leave.

As for the sorry state of his hidey-hole, hell, it was a hidey hole, not
a palace. Yeah, it only had one opening. Perhaps that's why they call
it a hole and not a tunnel. Maybe the reasons for the austerity had to
do with the fact that he was hiding from the US and from his own
citizens, many of whom would probably kill him on sight if given the
opportunity. When this is the case, you don't bring in the backhoe to
dig your hole--you dig it by hand in the middle of the night. You also
might pile flowerpots on the entrance to help hide it.

Bottom line-- a despotic killer of hundreds of thousands is in US
custody.

With so much verifiably bad **** going down, I see little reason to
spread this canard.


Scott

Scott Seidman:
A number of questions are raised by the incredibly bedraggled, tired and
crushed condition of this once savage, dapper and pampered ruler who was
discovered in a hole in the ground on Saturday, December 13:


Scott, I'll make an attempt at this.

Someone in hiding does not normally visit a barber and may not have access
to all the personal hygiene options that person once had. Growing a beard
is an easy disguise for many people, particularly in a region where beards
are common place.

Bunkers are often primitive in nature and are made small to aid concealment.
The entrance to this one was plugged, but with styrofoam and covered with a
rug. That hardly precludes being opened from beneath. Living on the run
will make one look beaten and hungry. As to the two men who fled and left
him, and the money, your supposition is as good as mine.

And with regard to Debka, I read it from time to time. Like any other
source it needs to be considered in light of its agenda and its actual
access to information. In this situation, I tend to believe the Army's
story.


--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

Stev notes:
In this situation, I tend to believe the Army's
story.

yeah, after that whopper they cooked up for the Jessica Lynch saga, could they
have that much bull**** left in them?
Tom

yeah, after that whopper they cooked up for the Jessica Lynch saga, could
they
have that much bull**** left in them?
Tom

On that matter, Tom, I agree with you. I'm sorry she was injured. I'm also
sorry that someone chose to hype the incident.

But it doesn't shake my faith in all military sources. PR people are the
same whether they wear a uniform or a suit.


--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

"slenon" wrote in message
om...
yeah, after that whopper they cooked up for the Jessica Lynch saga,
could
they
have that much bull**** left in them?
Tom

On that matter, Tom, I agree with you. I'm sorry she was injured. I'm
also
sorry that someone chose to hype the incident.

But it doesn't shake my faith in all military sources. PR people are the
same whether they wear a uniform or a suit.

Not exactly. By and large, the ones in suits murder fewer children.

Wolfgang
and yes, i do understand that not everyone thinks the distinction is
valid.....or important.

"Wolfgang" wrote in news:bstjvr$1745t$1@ID-
205717.news.uni-berlin.de:

Not exactly. By and large, the ones in suits murder fewer children.

Wolfgang
and yes, i do understand that not everyone thinks the distinction is
valid.....or important.





Who do you think is generating the agenda for the guys in the uniforms?

Scott

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Wolfgang" wrote in news:bstjvr$1745t$1@ID-
205717.news.uni-berlin.de:

Not exactly. By and large, the ones in suits murder fewer
children.

Wolfgang
and yes, i do understand that not everyone thinks the distinction
is
valid.....or important.





Who do you think is generating the agenda for the guys in the
uniforms?

Um.......hm.......o.k., I give up.

Wolfgang
who, having pondered this very question for ever so long, hopes that
it wasn't merely rhetorical.

Not exactly. By and large, the ones in suits murder fewer children.

Wolfgang
and yes, i do understand that not everyone thinks the distinction is
valid.....or important.

If we allow suits to include local business attire and customary dress, the
ones in suits are all too often the ones who start the process of war. I
have a greater appreciation of your position than you believe. And I do
acknowledge the validity and importance of the distinction.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

"slenon" wrote in message
m...
Not exactly. By and large, the ones in suits murder fewer children.

Wolfgang
and yes, i do understand that not everyone thinks the distinction is
valid.....or important.

If we allow suits to include local business attire and customary dress, the
ones in suits are all too often the ones who start the process of war. I
have a greater appreciation of your position than you believe. And I do
acknowledge the validity and importance of the distinction.

Good post. Many would agree. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
(It's a casual day at work today, so no murderous suits are in sight.)
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"Wolfgang" wrote in message ...
"slenon" wrote in message
om...
yeah, after that whopper they cooked up for the Jessica Lynch saga,
could
they
have that much bull**** left in them?
Tom

On that matter, Tom, I agree with you. I'm sorry she was injured. I'm
also
sorry that someone chose to hype the incident.

But it doesn't shake my faith in all military sources. PR people are the
same whether they wear a uniform or a suit.

Not exactly. By and large, the ones in suits murder fewer children.

Wolfgang
and yes, i do understand that not everyone thinks the distinction is
valid.....or important.


Men in suits send soldiers to war. Did you know people on your ship
that wanted to throw kids throw kids overboard and watch em go through
the screws? I didn't know anyone who felt that way either.
We seem to have a surplus of gutless chickenhawks ready to spill
anyones blood to make their freinds in Houston money.
Read Eisenhower's quote on soldiers and peace.