A Plea for help & a head's up

Peter Charles wrote in
:

Capisca?


*tweet* intentional foul*
Mid-thread language change
(Or are you trying to morph the thread into a recipe by
introducing salad items ;-)


Al is awarded one unchallenged extrapolation.


Steve (mmmm...capsicum )

On 21 Feb 2004 23:58:19 GMT, Stephen Welsh
wrote:

Peter Charles wrote in
:

Capisca?


*tweet* intentional foul*
Mid-thread language change
(Or are you trying to morph the thread into a recipe by
introducing salad items ;-)


Al is awarded one unchallenged extrapolation.


Steve (mmmm...capsicum )

awww, it wa my first offence, can't you let me off just this once,

puulleeese????

Peter

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Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Peter Charles wrote in
:

On 21 Feb 2004 23:58:19 GMT, Stephen Welsh
wrote:

Peter Charles wrote in
m:

Capisca?


*tweet* intentional foul*
Mid-thread language change
(Or are you trying to morph the thread into a recipe by
introducing salad items ;-)


Al is awarded one unchallenged extrapolation.


Steve (mmmm...capsicum )

awww, it wa my first offence, can't you let me off just this once,

puulleeese????

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at
http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html


[whisper]Given the judge is unlikely to make the distinction
between a challenged and unchallenged extrapolation
I wouldn't worry about it [/whisper]... and let that be a lesson to you.
The judges decision is final and no correspondence will be ...

D'OH!

Steve

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...

. . . Bubba Beer-belly is the type who
is also most likely to take every fish he can lay his fat, grubby,
nicotine stained fingers on....

Yeah, them ****in' smokers should all be shot!

Wolfgang

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:35:18 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


"Peter Charles" wrote in message
.. .

. . . Bubba Beer-belly is the type who
is also most likely to take every fish he can lay his fat, grubby,
nicotine stained fingers on....

Yeah, them ****in' smokers should all be shot!

Wolfgang


you quit all of a sudden?



Peter

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On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:03:31 GMT, "Wayne Harrison" wrote:


"just al" wrote in message
...
Didn't this whole discussion begin with a plea to petition the PA Fish and
Game folks about maintaining current regulations?

well, i'll be damned if i know how it began, but my bet is there's lots
of folks who will remember, fondly, its ending.

wayno

Why - is someone finally gonna drag out ol' Cluebringer and flail away?

/daytripper (a merciful ending to a heading-for-supercilious thread...)

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:35:18 -0600, "Wolfgang" wrote:


"Peter Charles" wrote in message
.. .

. . . Bubba Beer-belly is the type who
is also most likely to take every fish he can lay his fat, grubby,
nicotine stained fingers on....

Yeah, them ****in' smokers should all be shot!

Save yer ammo, my body is telling me I'm pretty much already there.

/daytripper (creaking along the path...)

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote


In the minority AND fly fishermen, and I for one don't have a problem
with designating certain waters off-limits to Bubba and his bait can.


.... in the minority.... for sure

but, while tackle USED ( years ago) to be a good indicator of ethical
maturity, I no longer believe it is. The last few years I've seen as
high an incidence of truly poor conduct in fly fishermen as in bait guys

MY belief is that this is becoming more the case because Fly Fishing USED to
be a far more difficult to get into, and to actually do. It was also seen
as a bit dorky and "odd," the opposite of "in."

Thus, the vast majority of FFers were outdoorsmen that had already matured
through the "greed years" that seem to afflict most of us fishermen and
hunters early in our development. And, had matured past the need to "fit
in" with their peers.

Like the duck hunter that starts doing anything remotely legal to "get a
limit" and gradually evolves into a guy that insists on only shooting at
perfectly decoying drake birds and sets restrictions on his tools and
methods FAR more stringent than the law, the FF used to be an outdoorsman
that had matured past greed.

They had matured past it and were looking for ways to find a more intimate
relationship with their prey and all of Nature. They started FFing for
that reason, because of the new maturity they found in themselves ... it was
a self imposed restriction born of that maturity ( NEVER to be confused with
just old ... there are lots of very immature old people :-).

In this modern FF age, many, many, people are going directly into FFing,
....without maturing, as outdoorsmen, beforehand. FFing is now very "in"
and thus appeals to those that desire to impress. and to follow the crowd,
( neither are good signs when looking for ethics) and it's now extremely
easy to get into... there is a fly shop on every other corner and 15 videos
at the library.

IME, these new mode FFers are bringing that "me, me, me, more, more, all
mine, all MINE " greed that I USED to associate with PowerBait and corn to
the FFonly waters in great numbers.

They may be religious about C&R but they have NOT really matured past the
PBandC attitudes of greed.

It's not that they are intrinsically less ethical than the beginning
fishermen of years past, they simply are bringing "beginner level"
outdoorsman ethics to a sport, Fly Fishing, that traditionally was NOT a
place beginners hung out, in numbers.

FWIW, I too consider myself an elitist asshole, picky about my outdoors
companions, BUT, I find I have to actually observe individual character and
actions to choose those I care to be associated with ... tackle is no
longer much of a clue
.......... something I find rather sad.

Peter wonders:
Perhaps a PA angler with more information would step forth. Perhaps a
PA angler I know and who I can rely upon to relate factual
information, will confirm or deny the statements made by the original
poster.

um, barring any such reliable source....
Here's the deal, as I see it. Yes, there have been a few recent efforts,
petition and otherwise, to alter the regs on PA's "delayed harvest" waters.
This has dated back over the past 3 years, at least. This is at least the
second such call for a response to this "outrage". If one wishes to dig through
ROFF archives, you will probably locate a rather testy response to a previous,
similar plea by me. Now, to go through some of Peter's questions:
If it is petitioning for what was claimed, what the effects will be?
None, from the fishes point of view. Without a doubt, only a very good bait
angler would succeed at landing most of
the 14 inch plus fish needed for keeping size, most such anglers are good
sportsmen, as are most fly/lure anglers.

What are its chances of success?
PA finds change a slow process, to date.

Are bait fishermans' and fly fishermans' interests actually at
loggerheads in PA?
Not to my mind.


Is the imputed influence of letter writers opposing the petiton
really of consequence
Yes, if said fishermen wish to help reinforce the stereotype of fly anglers as
stuffy snobs who generalize about bait or
hardware anglers. This case would, to my mind, argue strongly for keeping
silent and emphasizing the important regulations already in place. To wit:
littering, poaching
and trespassing laws. One's method of fishing does not dictate one's level of
civility astream. I can show the assembled
ROFF audience plenty of thoughtless assholes with fly-rods in hand, on most any
trout stream in PA. Bait fishing in no way affects that fact.

hope this helps,
Tom
......every bit as empassioned as the next
guy.....BTW, Al, ignore the flames and
come on down to Penn's in May.

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

but, while tackle USED ( years ago) [snip]
FFing is now very "in"

Perhaps you have a copy of Arnold Gringrich's "the Joys of Trout" laying
around somewhere, re-read the preface.

FWIW, I too consider myself an elitist asshole, picky about my outdoors
companions, BUT, I find I have to actually observe individual character
and
actions to choose those I care to be associated with ... tackle is no
longer much of a clue
......... something I find rather sad.


what i find rather sad is that you would even try and use the appearance of
one's tackle a clue as to your desire to be associated with someone. Some of
use learned a long time of the adage not to judge a book by it's cover.