Yesterday Afternoon

"Willi" wrote

I'm not too up on Latin names but supposedly the "Olives" are made up of
Baetis and some other I don't remember. However, use of the two Latin
names is misleading and even the common label Olives is misleading.
Maybe small gray Mayfly might be better.

Locally they hatch out throughout most of the year in various
permutations. They range from of a size 17 down to a 26. Wing colors
range from very light to very dark gray. Body color is mainly shades of
gray with some olive and rust. So functionally, the name covers a wide
range of bugs, whether or not the scientific name is the same or not is
irrelevant, IMO.


I certainly don't sit around talking Latin much, and most certainly don't
use Latin to "be impressive". "PMD," for instance, is pretty universally
used to mean two species that look alike and vary only in size. I'd prefer
to say "size 18 PMD" than one of the Latin names, since my words will likely
convey my meaning simply and without resorting to silly over complication.
But, IMO, the second paragraph above is a classic example of why we "should"
use Latin, at times.

If you, or anyone else, says "blue winged olive" I'm given very little real
information. Say I want to come fish with you and you tell me to tie up
some "olives" .... without several other paragraphs to define "olive" in the
current usage I don't know what size or color, do I? But, tell me Baetis
tricaudatis is hatching and I'm much better informed .... or can be with
some research.

BTW, for years I've been urging those I know in retriever trials to
standardize the language of training, for exactly the same reason.
Communication ( having your meaning understood, if not agreed with ) depends
on using language that is universally understood, and ( as we see so often
on Usenet), the honest desire to actually communicate, as opposed to argue,
or "win."

Rex Carr and Mike Lardy are THE two field trial trainers of all time ( Rex,
now dead, was my mentor ) and they only spent 3 days together, several years
back, when Mike came out specifically to met Rex. I was the only other
person there most of that three days, and at one point they bickered for 3/4
hour over a point, before agreeing to disagree, from mutual respect. The
sadly amusing thing was that from the "outside" it was clear that they were
using the same words (push and pull) to mean different things and that lack
of standardized training language was keeping communication from happening
between two greats of the activity.

In a like manner, I think there are times when the Latin is useful .....
"caddis" includes both Hydropsyche and Glossosoma and both may be active on
the same water at the same time ..... telling me you nailed em last night on
caddis doesn't help me as much as some Latin would ( assuming we were both
accurate in our use of the scientific names )

Still Green ( a grayish, rusty shade ;-), and tied fat on a big hook ...
yours truly

Larry L wrote:



I certainly don't sit around talking Latin much, and most certainly don't
use Latin to "be impressive". "PMD," for instance, is pretty universally
used to mean two species that look alike and vary only in size. I'd prefer
to say "size 18 PMD" than one of the Latin names, since my words will likely
convey my meaning simply and without resorting to silly over complication.
But, IMO, the second paragraph above is a classic example of why we "should"
use Latin, at times.

If you, or anyone else, says "blue winged olive" I'm given very little real
information. Say I want to come fish with you and you tell me to tie up
some "olives" .... without several other paragraphs to define "olive" in the
current usage I don't know what size or color, do I? But, tell me Baetis
tricaudatis is hatching and I'm much better informed .... or can be with
some research.


I disagree. I think that Latin just needlessly complicates things and
MANY of our aquatic insect species aren't even identified and named.

I brought in a sample of a huge Mayfly that comes off at sunset in the
middle of Summer to a professor of entomology at our university. He was
unable to identify it and wasn't aware of any local species that large.
(I need to check back with him and see if he ever did identify it.

Getting back to Olives - if you wanted to know the correct size and
color etc, you would have to know a number of species and subspecies (if
they are all even recognized). I'm also guessing there is size and color
difference in different strains of the same species. WAY too complicated
for me.

My suggestion would be for example: a size 20 gray winged gray bodied
Mayfly.

Willi

Willi wrote:

My suggestion would be for example: a size 20 gray winged gray bodied
Mayfly.

If they're gray, why are they called "olives"? THAT'S confusing.

--
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