OT LIfe's a bitch

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

Most of us probably see it somewhat differently than they did.

Wolfgang
funny world



I don´t think its all that funny mostly, but sometimes it is. Modern (
yeah
well, if you can call opium modern)drugs are so good that the pain is not
really an issue. The worst thing is experiencing the fear that others have
of losing their minds, or becoming "junkies".

They don´t care about the pain, or even about dying, but they really care
about becoming a helpless gibbering vegetable, or even just losing control
of their normal bodily functions. For many, the first time they lose
control of their bowels,is the worst thing that ever happened to them. It
does not "hurt", but actually it hurts worse than anything else.It is
demeaning, to a massive extent, and is the first real sign that one is
dependent on others.

Anybody who has experience of people dying of cancer, and tells you he
would
"prefer to die of cancer" is either a liar, or an abject fool.

Of course, perhaps I just see it differently.

The dying ends, eventually, for the dead. Not so for the living. I guess
there will always be differences of opinion concerning what lingers
longest......or hardest.

Jack Fisher spoke his last words about twenty-four hours before he died. He
had been lying mostly motionless, asleep or unconscious (for what the
difference is worth) for about two days. Suddenly, and entirely without
warning, he sat bolt upright in bed and made a horrible croaking noise. Jay
and I were both so shocked by the sudden levitation of Jack's cadaverous
form and the strange sounds emanating from his dry throat through a skeletal
face that we just sat there stunned, like we'd been hit with a ****ing
hammer, until on the third repetition we finally understood that he was
saying, "I gotta ****!"

We lifted him as gently as possible onto the bed pan and held him there for
several minutes until he passed out, having produced nothing worthy of note.
Gently, again, we laid him down on his back, crossed his arms on his chest
and covered him with a blanket. He never moved again.

Anyone witnessing the scene (there was actually no one else present) would
have agreed with the three of us (had it occurred to any of us to think
about it) that there was nothing the least bit amusing about the incident.
These day, whenever I think about, I have to suppress a snort and a giggle
(Jack would have too), and tears.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

Wolfgang



Strange, what happens. I have seen quite a few people die, and that is by
no means normal nowadays. Many die in hospital, or in the "old peoples
home" etc etc. It is no longer a "family thing". It is even difficult to
talk about it at all.

As you say, and have obviously experienced, ( although these things may
differ widely), it seems quite a few people take some time to die, as soon
as they actually start dying that is. In many cases, it seems to be
something that they more or less consciously decide to do, or some mechanism
takes over from their normal "geist" or "Verstand"( spirit?, "grasp of
life"?).

Arrrrggggghhhh! I am not sure that it is a good idea to even talk about it
on here, even if I could do it in a sensible and understandable manner.

Back to lurking, and keeping my too hasty mouth shut.

TL
MC

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...
As you say, and have obviously experienced, ( although these things may
differ widely), it seems quite a few people take some time to die, as soon
as they actually start dying that is. In many cases, it seems to be
something that they more or less consciously decide to do, or some
mechanism
takes over from their normal "geist" or "Verstand"( spirit?, "grasp of
life"?).

Arrrrggggghhhh! I am not sure that it is a good idea to even talk about
it
on here, even if I could do it in a sensible and understandable manner.

The hurt never really goes away. But time erodes the sharper edges.

I watched the full moon rise a couple of days ago, always one of my favorite
sights. I've seen it hundreds of times and each time it seems impossibly
large and near. Close up photographs, as we all now know, show a savage,
jagged, and ultimately forbidding place bereft of life or even the dimmest
hope of it. From my front stoop, and even with my corrected vision, it is a
fuzzy orange and warm looking ball, a perfectly round and beautifully lit
spectactle that exists for no better reason than my enjoyment on a warm
spring evening. The ancient Greeks were on to something. Perfection is
real enough, but it's out there somewhere.....and it's permanent. I know
(after a fashion) what it's really like up there but I never think about
that at times like this. Plenty of time for that, later.

Back to lurking, and keeping my too hasty mouth shut.

Plenty of time for that......later.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang:
The hurt never really goes away. But time erodes the sharper edges.

Like the rocks, memories also wear into gentler forms.

In the past four years I have buried a father-in-law, a mother-in-law ( both
of whom I loved very much) and a grandmother who made it to 99 before
wearing out and just not waking up. All three were gentle deaths for the
departing. Two of them were under the care of local hospices. As we reach
the age where our parents and our own selves are facing death, I can not
recommend the hospice program too highly. It provides a more dignified
death than that allowed in hospitals.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

Wolfgang



Strange, what happens. I have seen quite a few people die, and that is
by
no means normal nowadays.

i am 62 years old. my father died at 30, in a barroom fight. my mother
died suddenly, simply falling to the ground, while walking beside my eldest
son. i have never seen anyone die, and i never wish to do so.

i wish we could all live forever. but that won't happen, will it. i
think my most earnest hope for the future is that i will die gracefully.

i think that to write this here is a mistake. but i believe that there
are some of us who need to know that a graceful death will be appreciated by
those who are still alive. it may give us strength.

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
m...

i am 62 years old. my father died at 30, in a barroom fight. my
mother
died suddenly, simply falling to the ground, while walking beside my
eldest
son. i have never seen anyone die, and i never wish to do so.

i wish we could all live forever. but that won't happen, will it. i
think my most earnest hope for the future is that i will die gracefully.


i think that to write this here is a mistake.

If ever ROFF wanted a motto.......

but i believe that there
are some of us who need to know that a graceful death will be appreciated
by
those who are still alive. it may give us strength.

No mistakes noted.

Wolfgang
odd, isn't it, that the one thing nobody really wants to talk about brings
out so much simple eloquence in so many?

"Wayne Harrison" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
m...
SNIP
i think that to write this here is a mistake. but i believe that
there
are some of us who need to know that a graceful death will be appreciated
by
those who are still alive. it may give us strength.


You are probably right, but a graceful life would be nice too.

TL
MC

"Wayne Harrison" wrote
i am 62 years old. my father died at 30, in a barroom fight. my
mother
died suddenly, simply falling to the ground, while walking beside my
eldest
son. i have never seen anyone die, and i never wish to do so.

I'm 51 and I've watched dozens of people die, many in traffic accidents
and many at the hands of others. I was afraid I'd grown so callous to it
that I wouldn't feel much when I lost a loved one, but it wasn't so. I don't
know if any son has felt deeper grief than I did when mom lost her battle
with cancer last summer. Two weeks after her funeral I had to handle an
unattended death (no physician, so a quickie investigation to rule out foul
play) where the whole family scenario was eerily like my own family's
(decedent was the same age and general background as mom, same number of
kids, etc). It was the toughest death of a "stranger" I've ever had to deal
with.

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

.. . . it seems quite a few people take some time to die, as soon
as they actually start dying that is. In many cases, it seems to be
something that they more or less consciously decide to do, or some
mechanism
takes over from their normal "geist" or "Verstand"( spirit?, "grasp of
life"?).

Yep. Some need to be told that its OK, to "let go," to ride into it. Some
hang on as long as they can, like to wait until a particular friend/loved
one has arrived, and some see it coming and die terrified.

On a more upbeat note . . . it seems that if you are in a situation where
you figure you are a goner, a certain calm seems to take over and you seem
to think very clearly. To some extent you kind of move a bit out of your
body and start observing things from a place somewhat removed.

Also, sometimes great pain can liberate you from terror, given you don't go
too far into shock. If you can ride the pain you can almost feel powerful in
the sense that the pain might be more than you ever thought you could stay
concious thru. Then, later if the pain lessens, you can almost welcome its
presence as confirmation that you are still kicking.

All this said, I still consider morphine, hydrocodone etc to be welcome
wonder drugs.

Dave

"David Snedeker" wrote All this said, I still
consider morphine, hydrocodone etc to be welcome
wonder drugs.

Dave

i can dig it. 8 yrs ago. on the er table. the first ekg doesn't
show heart damage. pain beyond belief. begging finally produces demerol.
i lived. but had i died, i would still come back to haunt the bitch that
wouldn't give me the demerol.

yfitons
wayno