line choice for beginner

"Greg Pavlov" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:36:42 +0200, "Mike Connor"
wrote:

For a long time, most rods had two ratings marked on the butt i.e
#6/#7 or similar.
This was usually a manufacturers recommendation that the rod would cast a
DT#6 or a WF#7. This is because a WF line of the same rating as the DT
would be too light to load the rod at short range, ...

I believe that it is the other way around: for longer
casts one must shoot line, or shoot more line, with
the WT, so it helps to have more weight in the first
30 feet. As you pointed out, for a given line weight
rating, the first 30 feet should be apx the same weight
whether the line is a DT or WT, so for short distances
the rod loading should be the same with either.

SNIP

What you say is basically correct. A WF line is merely a shooting head with
integrated running line, designed for long casting, and using a haul to
shoot line. It will cast a lot further than a comparable DT, ( if you can
use it!). But here we are talking about short range use, ( for beginners
to boot!), and in such a case a heavier line loads the rod more easily.

TL
MC

Mike Connor wrote:

AFTM In grains In grams In ounces
3 100 +/- 6 6.48 0.228
4 120 +/- 6 7.78 0.274
5 140 +/- 6 9.07 0.32
6 160 +/- 8 10.42 0.366
7 185 +/- 8 11.99 0.422
8 210 +/- 8 13.61 0.48
9 240 +/- 10 15.55 0.55
10 280 +/- 10 18.14 0.64
11 330 +/- 12 21.38 0.75
12 380 +/- 12 24.62 0.86


From what I understand, some of the new lines out there are really now
outside the above limits. IE. a line sold as a 5 weight is really about
a 5 and a 1/2 weight or even slightly more. (Maybe someone in the
business can comment)

When the line manufacturers start deviating from a "standard" it makes
it difficult for the public to make a reasonable decision. Add to this
all the new specialty lines out there, and the decision is even harder.

Willi

Bill Curry wrote:

I would be interested in hearing what lines someone would use in drift boat
situations, that is something I haven't experienced, but if it's like
fishing from a canoe, like up here - except more stable I suspect - again,
would not the WF line be an advantage?

I generally use a heavier rod when I've fished from a drift because long
quick casts are often necessary. I agree on large river in a drift boat,
a WT line is an advantage. However, that is not day to day fishing for
me or most people.

Willi

"Willi" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...


Mike Connor wrote:

AFTM In grains In grams In ounces
3 100 +/- 6 6.48 0.228
4 120 +/- 6 7.78 0.274
5 140 +/- 6 9.07 0.32
6 160 +/- 8 10.42 0.366
7 185 +/- 8 11.99 0.422
8 210 +/- 8 13.61 0.48
9 240 +/- 10 15.55 0.55
10 280 +/- 10 18.14 0.64
11 330 +/- 12 21.38 0.75
12 380 +/- 12 24.62 0.86


From what I understand, some of the new lines out there are really now
outside the above limits. IE. a line sold as a 5 weight is really about
a 5 and a 1/2 weight or even slightly more. (Maybe someone in the
business can comment)

When the line manufacturers start deviating from a "standard" it makes
it difficult for the public to make a reasonable decision. Add to this
all the new specialty lines out there, and the decision is even harder.

Willi




That is correct Willi. The trick here is to bamboozle people into using a
heavier line, which to some extent will cast more easily at short range. As
very few people use these lines at any distance, they never notice, and can
of course cast more easily. They could do exactly the same if they wanted,
simply by using a DT one rating higher.

It is generally easier for beginners to cast heavier ( Floating!!!!) lines,
as they can feel the rod loading more easily. This of course has a number
of disadvantages. Presentation suffers, distance ( assuming the requisite
casting capability) is not so easily achievable, larger ( = heavier) reels
are required, etc etc.

Airflo is the main manufacturer doing this, none of the responsible ones
are. I would not even use an airflo line to tie up my tomatoes, ( if I had
any tomatoes!).

TL
MC

"Allen Epps" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
et...
SNIP
Mike,
Wow, hard to believe that things can go that wrong with something as
important to my "life liberty and pursuit of happiness" as basic as
fishing. I've heard similar horror stories about the Green's in
Australia from a liasion officer. Thanks for the info.

Allen

Indeed! Germany is a free and democratic country consisting of Federal
States, with a constitution, etc etc. But it is not the same constitution
that America has! Neither are the politics very similar at the moment!

You are very lucky indeed to have the advantages you have in America. Even
if you do occasionally end up with a loony for president

TL
MC

"Allen Epps" wrote in message
et...
In article , Mike Connor
wrote:

snipped

With regard to the "thousands" of people I have taught to cast. This
sounds
ridiculous of course, but is a fact. Where I live, people are obliged to
take a number of tests before they can go fishing. For a long time I
instructed large numbers of people wishing to do this. Often up to a
hundred or more at a time, and several times a year. Normally, most
could
cast well enough to pass the test after two Saturday mornings
instruction,
and a couple of days practicing on their own.

TL
MC

Mike,

A bit off topic for the subject but I was intrigued by the idea of
required instruction prior to taking up fishing. Driving, sure (in
fact, most in the US ought to go back for a refresher! ) Hunting, makes
good sense as you're dealing with potentially lethal mistakes, but
fishing? Is it conservation that they want to teach or is it a safety
issue? I fish with Frank Reid regularly so no one is more aware of the
dangers of fishing than me (and I've pulled some pretty stupid stuff
myself I just don't share it!) but I can't think of any classroom or
on-the-water course that would have saved me.

Happy Easter

Allen
Catonsville, MD

Hi Allen,
Mike and I had a little bit of recollection a few years ago as I recall
about fishing in Germany. As you were in the military, as me, certain
"rules", at the time were made much easier for US military personnel.
Certainly the standard Germany bureaucratic things happen, but as I recall,
I had to only show a US license, from any state, spend a long time waiting
in an office, a military ID, then get a license. . .with a small fee.
Of course, most areas after that were pay as you go, and stocked trout, but
kinda neat, if flyfishing was allowed. ( generally couldn't catch and
release) Residents have to go through a much more regulated process to get
a license. . .uhhh . . .with money. BestWishes,
DaveMohnsen
Denver

In article . net,
DaveMohnsen wrote:

"Allen Epps" wrote in message
et...
In article , Mike Connor
wrote:

snipped

With regard to the "thousands" of people I have taught to cast. This
sounds
ridiculous of course, but is a fact. Where I live, people are obliged to
take a number of tests before they can go fishing. For a long time I
instructed large numbers of people wishing to do this. Often up to a
hundred or more at a time, and several times a year. Normally, most
could
cast well enough to pass the test after two Saturday mornings
instruction,
and a couple of days practicing on their own.

TL
MC

Mike,

A bit off topic for the subject but I was intrigued by the idea of
required instruction prior to taking up fishing. Driving, sure (in
fact, most in the US ought to go back for a refresher! ) Hunting, makes
good sense as you're dealing with potentially lethal mistakes, but
fishing? Is it conservation that they want to teach or is it a safety
issue? I fish with Frank Reid regularly so no one is more aware of the
dangers of fishing than me (and I've pulled some pretty stupid stuff
myself I just don't share it!) but I can't think of any classroom or
on-the-water course that would have saved me.

Happy Easter

Allen
Catonsville, MD

Hi Allen,
Mike and I had a little bit of recollection a few years ago as I recall
about fishing in Germany. As you were in the military, as me, certain
"rules", at the time were made much easier for US military personnel.
Certainly the standard Germany bureaucratic things happen, but as I recall,
I had to only show a US license, from any state, spend a long time waiting
in an office, a military ID, then get a license. . .with a small fee.
Of course, most areas after that were pay as you go, and stocked trout, but
kinda neat, if flyfishing was allowed. ( generally couldn't catch and
release) Residents have to go through a much more regulated process to get
a license. . .uhhh . . .with money. BestWishes,
DaveMohnsen
Denver

Dave,
I was lucky enough to make a half dozen trips to Alaska (Yakitat) with
my grandfather before he passed away. There was always the same group
of four German gentleman there fishing at the same time as us (late
June for Sockeyes and Kings) . Only one spoke any English and he spoke
about how much different the fishing was but we really didn't talk
about regulations more just the type and environment. One of the other
gents was the tyer of the group and he and I would set our vices up on
the porch rail outside our rooms and tie after dinner. I recall a
couple of the hundreds of fish we caught but more sharing a common
interest without little means to communicate. I was always popular
though since I brought beer from Seattle as the only beer they had
available was "both kinds, Bud and Bud light"
When I was in Aviano for the Kosovo debacle I saw lot of very large
rainbows in the river near where we were staying and one of the other
guys looked into fishing but it seemed much as you said, money and
paperwork and we really didn't have much time to do any anyway.

Thanks for the info.

Allen

"DaveMohnsen" schrieb im
Newsbeitrag ink.net...

"Allen Epps" wrote in message
et...
In article , Mike Connor
wrote:

snipped

With regard to the "thousands" of people I have taught to cast. This
sounds
ridiculous of course, but is a fact. Where I live, people are obliged
to
take a number of tests before they can go fishing. For a long time I
instructed large numbers of people wishing to do this. Often up to a
hundred or more at a time, and several times a year. Normally, most
could
cast well enough to pass the test after two Saturday mornings
instruction,
and a couple of days practicing on their own.

TL
MC

Mike,

A bit off topic for the subject but I was intrigued by the idea of
required instruction prior to taking up fishing. Driving, sure (in
fact, most in the US ought to go back for a refresher! ) Hunting, makes
good sense as you're dealing with potentially lethal mistakes, but
fishing? Is it conservation that they want to teach or is it a safety
issue? I fish with Frank Reid regularly so no one is more aware of the
dangers of fishing than me (and I've pulled some pretty stupid stuff
myself I just don't share it!) but I can't think of any classroom or
on-the-water course that would have saved me.

Happy Easter

Allen
Catonsville, MD

Hi Allen,
Mike and I had a little bit of recollection a few years ago as I recall
about fishing in Germany. As you were in the military, as me, certain
"rules", at the time were made much easier for US military personnel.
Certainly the standard Germany bureaucratic things happen, but as I
recall,
I had to only show a US license, from any state, spend a long time waiting
in an office, a military ID, then get a license. . .with a small fee.
Of course, most areas after that were pay as you go, and stocked trout,
but
kinda neat, if flyfishing was allowed. ( generally couldn't catch and
release) Residents have to go through a much more regulated process to
get
a license. . .uhhh . . .with money. BestWishes,
DaveMohnsen
Denver



It is not actually all that expensive to get a licence. Most clubs charge
about thirty dollars for the complete course. Registered and examined
instructors give their time free. ( Although some try to make money
flogging gear, or "sponsoring" tackle shops!).

The licence itself is also cheap enough, although this varies from State to
State. In some places it must be renewed ( for a fee) yearly, in others at
three year intervals, and in still others it is for life. German fishery law
is governed federally, but national law overrides it.

As a foreigner, you can get a licence relatively easily, but you will still
have problems finding somewhere to fish, as most clubs, ( who have the best
water) will not allow anybody to fish who has not passed the test, even if
they have a licence! Catch 22.

You can fish put and takes, and private water for a fee, as long as you have
a licence.

For more info, have a look here;

http://www.cybertrout.com/germany.htm

http://www.users.odn.de/~odn03061/

TL
MC

From: "Mike Connor"

These tests, including 36 hours mandatory classroom instruction, six hours
casting instruction ( extra if you want to flyfish, the basic tests are only
for spincasting), a valid and current first aid certificate, and a current
police report, followed by the practical and theoretical tests, are a
legal
requirement before one may obtain a licence.

WoW! That's more than I had to do to get a concealed carry handgun permit in
the gun unfriendly People's Republic of Massachusetts.

Is there any logic at all in imposing these requirements for a fishing license,
or is it all emotional issues by the greens? (You Nader folks paying attention
to this?)


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

From: "Mike Connor"

Even
if you do occasionally end up with a loony for president

It's been that way for some time and is unlikely to change anytime soon,
whether the vote goes D, R, or I. You'd have to be looney just to want the job.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller