Orvis + Wal-Mart = Angry local shopkeep

"rw" wrote in message
nk.net...
wrote:

It's not that big of a surprise. Orvis bought Redington to get
exposure into the lower end market. The elitist market just isn't
big enough. If you could sell 10,000 high-end flyrods at $500 profit or
100,000 low-end flyrods at $100 profit which would you do?

I'd sell 10,000 high-end rods and be happy with the $5M profit and my
good name, thank you very much.

When manufacturers make deals with Wal Mart, they often regret it. Wal
Mart quickly becomes the company's biggest customer, and then they
squeeze margins ruthlessly. Eventually, when the manufacturer can't keep
up, Wal Mart takes the business overseas, and ****s over the original
partner.

And they don't only do it to manufacturers. A few weeks ago the ****ers
refused to take my MasterCard......said that MC charges them too much.

Wolfgang
content in the knowledge that he and wal-mart can live without one another.

And they don't only do it to manufacturers. A few weeks ago the ****ers
refused to take my MasterCard......said that MC charges them too much.

I had the same damn thing happen to me. Walmart got Visa to lower its rate
to them, MasterCharge wouldn't follow suit so they banned 'em.
Here's an elitist question. Its already been brought up here, in that many
of Orvis' customers wouldn't know where a Walmart is. Walmart does the FLW
tour for bass fishermen. Bass fishermen also go in to get parts for their
boats. There's two hooks for the bass fishermen. Where's the hook to bring
in a fly fisherman?
We go to the fly shops to get that detailed knowledge. Its a whole
different market than fly fishing. I equate it to the quilters market that
Wally World tried to get into. There are a few folks who will make a quilt
out of the 99 cent a yard fabrics that WM sells, but from the get-go, its
going to be an inferior product. Same amount of work as a quilt made with
10 dollar a yard fabric, but the colors fade, the fabric dyes break down the
fabric, the texture is not the same. Walmart lost out on that one. I think
this will be the same. Yes, it will bring in some people who've never fly
fished before, but they'll spend the money, not get the expert advice and
end up with a fly rod in the back of the closet or a spinning reel on the
thing for crappie.
Right now, I think they just want to associate themselves with a
"high-class" name, aka KMart's work with Martha Stewart. Luckily, Orvis
won't have its namesake going to prison.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

"Frank Reid" wrote in message different
market than fly fishing. I equate it to the quilters market that
Wally World tried to get into. There are a few folks who will make a
quilt
out of the 99 cent a yard fabrics that WM sells, but from the get-go, its
going to be an inferior product. Same amount of work as a quilt made with
10 dollar a yard fabric, but the colors fade, the fabric dyes break down
the
fabric, the texture is not the same. Walmart lost out on that one.
Indian Joe evokes---quilting must have really changed from grandmother's
days--she made quilts out of old pieces of cloth -a piece of overalls, part
of material left from making Aunt Sally"s wedding dress--even a piece of
old Great Grandfather's civil war uniform.
A recently read story by a southern author made a reference to a quilt made
of remnants of old men"s suit coats-- "That quilt has alot of funerals ."

Indian Joe evokes---quilting must have really changed from grandmother's
days--she made quilts out of old pieces of cloth -a piece of overalls,
part
of material left from making Aunt Sally"s wedding dress--even a piece of
old Great Grandfather's civil war uniform.
A recently read story by a southern author made a reference to a quilt
made
of remnants of old men"s suit coats-- "That quilt has alot of funerals ."

And the fabric used in the old flour sacks, due to the nature of weight it
was designed to carry, was a very good fabric by today's standards. We, as
a society, either throw away or donate our old clothes. The marketing
genuises have made us a throw-away society, so, when we're making a quilt,
we use new fabric. Many of the older, more valuble quilts were made in the
same way. Just a smaller percentage than today's quilts. Its all in
manhour costs vs making beauty out of frugality. Right now, you can buy a
goose down comforter that will keep you much warmer than 99% of the quilts
in the world. The materials in that down comforter may be 5 times more
expensive, but the 15 minutes of manhours that it take to make it blows away
the hundreds of manhours required of the quilt. Quilting is now a hobby,
not a necessity.
--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

"Frank Reid" wrote in message
...
And they don't only do it to manufacturers. A few weeks ago the ****ers
refused to take my MasterCard......said that MC charges them too much.

I had the same damn thing happen to me. Walmart got Visa to lower its
rate
to them, MasterCharge wouldn't follow suit so they banned 'em.
Here's an elitist question. Its already been brought up here, in that
many
of Orvis' customers wouldn't know where a Walmart is. Walmart does the
FLW
tour for bass fishermen. Bass fishermen also go in to get parts for their
boats. There's two hooks for the bass fishermen. Where's the hook to
bring
in a fly fisherman?

Orvis and Wal-Mart are betting that Orvis is that hook.

We go to the fly shops to get that detailed knowledge. Its a whole
different market than fly fishing. I equate it to the quilters market
that
Wally World tried to get into. There are a few folks who will make a
quilt
out of the 99 cent a yard fabrics that WM sells, but from the get-go, its
going to be an inferior product. Same amount of work as a quilt made with
10 dollar a yard fabric, but the colors fade, the fabric dyes break down
the
fabric, the texture is not the same. Walmart lost out on that one. I
think
this will be the same. Yes, it will bring in some people who've never fly
fished before, but they'll spend the money, not get the expert advice and
end up with a fly rod in the back of the closet or a spinning reel on the
thing for crappie.
Right now, I think they just want to associate themselves with a
"high-class" name, aka KMart's work with Martha Stewart. Luckily, Orvis
won't have its namesake going to prison.

Point taken, but it's stretched a bit. In fact, a lot of the fabrics sold
by Wal-Mart are identical to those found in dedicated quilt shops......same
manufacturers, same product codes and, frequently enough, same dye lots.
Sometimes it takes a bit of sleuthing, but generally it's easy enough to
figure out.....all the information is typically on the bolt ends.
Um......yeah, I checked.

I suspect that, as has been said here often enough, it's much the same with
fly fishing gear insofar as one will find identical products in both high
and low end shops. The difference is that a lot of this stuff is sold under
a variety of different labels, making identification of the manufacturers
and products specifications more difficult. Whereas one can usually trace a
bit of fabric back to it's manufacturer (and even to the date of
manufacture.....if you know what bolt it came from), doing the same with
fishing gear is virtually impossible for the average consumer without access
to specialized knowledge of the byzantine relationships between
manufacturers and their various clients. For example, the printed design on
a piece of fabric is generally proprietary....if you find out who owns the
copyright, you know who made it, or can find out easily. Conversely, most
fly rods have no distinctive features that readily identify them as being
made by a particular manufacturer. The distinctive natures of the two
industries are such that while the labels on the goods of one tell you a
lot, those on the products of the other may or may not tell you anything at
all.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Frank Reid" wrote in message
...
And they don't only do it to manufacturers. A few weeks ago the
****ers
refused to take my MasterCard......said that MC charges them too much.

I had the same damn thing happen to me. Walmart got Visa to lower its
rate
to them, MasterCharge wouldn't follow suit so they banned 'em.
Here's an elitist question. Its already been brought up here, in that
many
of Orvis' customers wouldn't know where a Walmart is. Walmart does the
FLW
tour for bass fishermen. Bass fishermen also go in to get parts for
their
boats. There's two hooks for the bass fishermen. Where's the hook to
bring
in a fly fisherman?

Orvis and Wal-Mart are betting that Orvis is that hook.

Cripes....the WM employees can't put 10 boxes of cereal on display neatly.
Imagine a rack of 100 different flies.....

In article ,
"Doug Kanter" wrote:

Cripes....the WM employees can't put 10 boxes of cereal on display neatly.
Imagine a rack of 100 different flies.....

THey already do have flies. At least our WM does. They have the same
plastic compartmental type do hickey that some fly shops use. They also
sell scientific angler flyrods, flyreels, combo's, fly line, leader,
etc. I saw a okuma sierra fly reel at walmart for $30.

--
Bush is a disgrace to the constitution. See
http://www.amconmag.com/12_15_03/feature.html
http://www.altpr.org/modules.php?op=...ticle&sid= 39

"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doug Kanter" wrote:

Cripes....the WM employees can't put 10 boxes of cereal on display
neatly.
Imagine a rack of 100 different flies.....

THey already do have flies. At least our WM does. They have the same
plastic compartmental type do hickey that some fly shops use. They also
sell scientific angler flyrods, flyreels, combo's, fly line, leader,
etc. I saw a okuma sierra fly reel at walmart for $30.

Well, if fly shops begin to vanish the way gun shops do when Wally World
comes to town, and new anglers can't get advice, there should be some
excellent streamside comedy in the future.

wrote...
Well, if fly shops begin to vanish the way gun shops do when Wally World
comes to town, and new anglers can't get advice, there should be some
excellent streamside comedy in the future.

TOTAL horse ****. Three new fly shops and two new "sporting goods"
stores have been added in the last couple of years here. The
"sporting goods" stores also carry fly tying and fly fishing
equipment of various qualities. One carries Orvis and other upper
end equipment while the other carries St Croix, etc. Sine Walmart
has opened they have also built an Orvis endorsed fly shop which
expanded two weeks ago and now includes a "satellite" store between
town and two of the major local rivers. Greater Yellowstone Fly
Fishers is in the process of expanding their current store (moving
to a building twice as big) in the same area. Both aren't more than
5-8 miles from Walmart. The fly shop across the interstate from
Walmart has also fine-tuned their product line and is doing better
business than ever and it is only a block away from Walmart!

Walmart still carries the same ol' **** and every consumer at every
price level has a place to buy their goods. I don't buy anything
related to fly fishing from Walmart and probably never will unless
they start carrying Simms, Loomis, Winston, J.A. Forbes, Ross and
numerous other brands that I buy. Walmart is doing nothing less
than what Cabela's has by introducing low-end rods and gear for
novice or beginner fishermen. Their flies, while cheap, are CHEAP
pieces of **** made overseas in substandard factories. There are
numerous other places that offer flies locally for the same price
that are better made with better materials. I can't think of ANY
local sporting good stores or fly shops that have gone under because
of Walmart or that have gone under PERIOD since Walmart has moved to
town. Of course there was Gibson's, which was on its way out even
before Walmart moved to town and offered the EXACT same selection as
Walmart in terms of sporting goods. All of the local shops were
able to run that chain out of here.

Guns? Here, Walmart barely has any selection at all! The sporting
goods stores/gun shops have done nothing but EXPAND since Walmart
has opened here. Unless of course they carried the same lines as
Walmart at a higher price..... Again, I can't think of any shops
that have closed since Walmart has opened. The local pawn shops
have more of a selection than Walmart and are very competitive with
Walmart (for used, often battered weapons). What has happened is
that retailers here have specialized in niches that Walmart neglects
by offering a larger range of products or offer a very competitive
price for the same product as Walmart.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt on either yahoo or earthlink to respond via email)

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
.......said that MC charges them too much.

Wolfgang

It´s a foul slander! They never give me any of it!

TL
MC