Orvis + Wal-Mart = Angry local shopkeep

Indian Joe evokes---quilting must have really changed from grandmother's
days--she made quilts out of old pieces of cloth -a piece of overalls,
part
of material left from making Aunt Sally"s wedding dress--even a piece of
old Great Grandfather's civil war uniform.
A recently read story by a southern author made a reference to a quilt
made
of remnants of old men"s suit coats-- "That quilt has alot of funerals ."

And the fabric used in the old flour sacks, due to the nature of weight it
was designed to carry, was a very good fabric by today's standards. We, as
a society, either throw away or donate our old clothes. The marketing
genuises have made us a throw-away society, so, when we're making a quilt,
we use new fabric. Many of the older, more valuble quilts were made in the
same way. Just a smaller percentage than today's quilts. Its all in
manhour costs vs making beauty out of frugality. Right now, you can buy a
goose down comforter that will keep you much warmer than 99% of the quilts
in the world. The materials in that down comforter may be 5 times more
expensive, but the 15 minutes of manhours that it take to make it blows away
the hundreds of manhours required of the quilt. Quilting is now a hobby,
not a necessity.
--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

"Frank Reid" wrote in message
...
And they don't only do it to manufacturers. A few weeks ago the ****ers
refused to take my MasterCard......said that MC charges them too much.

I had the same damn thing happen to me. Walmart got Visa to lower its
rate
to them, MasterCharge wouldn't follow suit so they banned 'em.
Here's an elitist question. Its already been brought up here, in that
many
of Orvis' customers wouldn't know where a Walmart is. Walmart does the
FLW
tour for bass fishermen. Bass fishermen also go in to get parts for their
boats. There's two hooks for the bass fishermen. Where's the hook to
bring
in a fly fisherman?

Orvis and Wal-Mart are betting that Orvis is that hook.

We go to the fly shops to get that detailed knowledge. Its a whole
different market than fly fishing. I equate it to the quilters market
that
Wally World tried to get into. There are a few folks who will make a
quilt
out of the 99 cent a yard fabrics that WM sells, but from the get-go, its
going to be an inferior product. Same amount of work as a quilt made with
10 dollar a yard fabric, but the colors fade, the fabric dyes break down
the
fabric, the texture is not the same. Walmart lost out on that one. I
think
this will be the same. Yes, it will bring in some people who've never fly
fished before, but they'll spend the money, not get the expert advice and
end up with a fly rod in the back of the closet or a spinning reel on the
thing for crappie.
Right now, I think they just want to associate themselves with a
"high-class" name, aka KMart's work with Martha Stewart. Luckily, Orvis
won't have its namesake going to prison.

Point taken, but it's stretched a bit. In fact, a lot of the fabrics sold
by Wal-Mart are identical to those found in dedicated quilt shops......same
manufacturers, same product codes and, frequently enough, same dye lots.
Sometimes it takes a bit of sleuthing, but generally it's easy enough to
figure out.....all the information is typically on the bolt ends.
Um......yeah, I checked.

I suspect that, as has been said here often enough, it's much the same with
fly fishing gear insofar as one will find identical products in both high
and low end shops. The difference is that a lot of this stuff is sold under
a variety of different labels, making identification of the manufacturers
and products specifications more difficult. Whereas one can usually trace a
bit of fabric back to it's manufacturer (and even to the date of
manufacture.....if you know what bolt it came from), doing the same with
fishing gear is virtually impossible for the average consumer without access
to specialized knowledge of the byzantine relationships between
manufacturers and their various clients. For example, the printed design on
a piece of fabric is generally proprietary....if you find out who owns the
copyright, you know who made it, or can find out easily. Conversely, most
fly rods have no distinctive features that readily identify them as being
made by a particular manufacturer. The distinctive natures of the two
industries are such that while the labels on the goods of one tell you a
lot, those on the products of the other may or may not tell you anything at
all.

Wolfgang

"rw" wrote in message
nk.net...
wrote:

It's not that big of a surprise. Orvis bought Redington to get
exposure into the lower end market. The elitist market just isn't
big enough. If you could sell 10,000 high-end flyrods at $500 profit or
100,000 low-end flyrods at $100 profit which would you do?

I'd sell 10,000 high-end rods and be happy with the $5M profit and my
good name, thank you very much.

When manufacturers make deals with Wal Mart, they often regret it. Wal
Mart quickly becomes the company's biggest customer, and then they
squeeze margins ruthlessly. Eventually, when the manufacturer can't keep
up, Wal Mart takes the business overseas, and ****s over the original
partner.

I suspect that the Orvis equipment you buy at Wal Mart will in no way
resemble what comes from the actual Orvis factory. And, your typical Wal
Mart customer won't know or care, either.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

I suspect that the Orvis equipment you buy at Wal Mart will in no way
resemble what comes from the actual Orvis factory. And, your typical Wal
Mart customer won't know or care, either.

I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't know or care either......but then, maybe I'm
a typical Wal-Mart customer. What are the diagnostic features?

Wolfgang

"Doug Kanter" wrote...
"rw" wrote...
wrote:

It's not that big of a surprise. Orvis bought Redington to get
exposure into the lower end market. The elitist market just isn't
big enough. If you could sell 10,000 high-end flyrods at $500 profit or
100,000 low-end flyrods at $100 profit which would you do?

I'd sell 10,000 high-end rods and be happy with the $5M profit and my
good name, thank you very much.

When manufacturers make deals with Wal Mart, they often regret it. Wal
Mart quickly becomes the company's biggest customer, and then they
squeeze margins ruthlessly. Eventually, when the manufacturer can't keep
up, Wal Mart takes the business overseas, and ****s over the original
partner.

I suspect that the Orvis equipment you buy at Wal Mart will in no way
resemble what comes from the actual Orvis factory.

????? So are they going to put Orvis labels on their Hodgeman stuff, or just
start up a whole new production facility for Walmart?

And, your typical Wal Mart customer won't know or care, either.

Damned low-lifes. I wish they'd just get outta town.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
.......said that MC charges them too much.

Wolfgang

It´s a foul slander! They never give me any of it!

TL
MC

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 05:40:13 -0500, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

I suspect that the Orvis equipment you buy at Wal Mart will in no way
resemble what comes from the actual Orvis factory. And, your typical Wal
Mart customer won't know or care, either.

I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't know or care either......but then, maybe I'm
a typical Wal-Mart customer. What are the diagnostic features?

Wolfgang

A lot of us are missing our front teef.


g.c.

And don't forget the gall bladder scars and whining kids.

"Wolfgang" wrote I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't know
or care either......but then, maybe I'm
a typical Wal-Mart customer. What are the diagnostic features?

a rather sardonic attitude, curly hair, and large, round eyeglasses.

yfitons
wayno (they are often found in the hinterlands of wisconsin, as well)

????? So are they going to put Orvis labels on their Hodgeman stuff, or
just
start up a whole new production facility for Walmart?

And, your typical Wal Mart customer won't know or care, either.

Damned low-lifes. I wish they'd just get outta town.
Tim

Based upon a recent forerunner of this discussion on another forum, Orvis
intends to market only their entry level items via WalMart. Even that is
bad enough in my estimation.


As for the "typical customer," I avoid the place like plague so I no longer
have any idea who might be typical. But a guess would include all the poor
*******s who've been downsized, outsourced, laid off, and underpaid to the
point where they can't afford to shop where they might prefer.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

"slenon" wrote in message
om...
????? So are they going to put Orvis labels on their Hodgeman stuff, or
just
start up a whole new production facility for Walmart?

And, your typical Wal Mart customer won't know or care, either.

Damned low-lifes. I wish they'd just get outta town.
Tim

Based upon a recent forerunner of this discussion on another forum, Orvis
intends to market only their entry level items via WalMart. Even that is
bad enough in my estimation.


As for the "typical customer," I avoid the place like plague so I no
longer
have any idea who might be typical. But a guess would include all the
poor
*******s who've been downsized, outsourced, laid off, and underpaid to the
point where they can't afford to shop where they might prefer.

Actually, I wasn't referring to someone's economic position or job status.
The store attracts customers who find ONE thing cheaper there than
elsewhere, and blindly assume that EVERYTHING is cheaper. Groceries are a
perfect example. Anyone who follows their grocery bills the RIGHT way will
find that they're not saving anything, at least anyplace there's decent
competition. Around here (Rochester NY), Wal Mart hasn't made much of a dent
in that category.