bass on the fly

Steve Nyhan wrote:

... I believe a fly rodder can out fish a
bait caster in shallow water anytime.

deja vu!! (eh, petah?)

6-8 weight rod, bass leaders, big popping bugs in various colors... hula
poppers, dixie devils, worm/leech ties, etc. fish edges and holes in
lilly pads, fish the drop offs. and...a good baitcaster or spin
fisherman will kick your butt everytime, shallow or deep water...
that's my opinion.

jeff

On Sun, 23 May 2004 14:47:12 -0400, Jeff Miller
wrote:



Steve Nyhan wrote:

... I believe a fly rodder can out fish a
bait caster in shallow water anytime.

deja vu!! (eh, petah?)

6-8 weight rod, bass leaders, big popping bugs in various colors... hula
poppers, dixie devils, worm/leech ties, etc. fish edges and holes in
lilly pads, fish the drop offs. and...a good baitcaster or spin
fisherman will kick your butt everytime, shallow or deep water...
that's my opinion.

jeff

ya, ya, ya -- that's why I said the fly rodder has to think out of
the box. If you're gonna fish like a baitcaster, take a baitcaster.
PJ would cast into the salad and rip the worm across the top. A short
(9 footer) fly rod wouldn't be able to cast as far nor keep the fly
line out of the salad. I spent a lot of time casting to fish that
weren't home, fishing the cold, empty shallows. The wind played merry
hell with the lighter line but it was of no concern to PJ's
baitcaster.

I didn't play to the strengths of the fly rod that day. Give the
weather we had, the fish weren't going to be in the shallows until the
temperature rose. They weren't going to be moving too fast either.
They were either in deeper water or under the salad that probably
acted like an insulating blanket for that water. I bet the temps
under the salad were one or two degrees warmer than the open shallows.

I should've been fishing the canals like a UK stillwater angler,
dropping damselflies and dragonflies into the canels and retrieving
them very slowly along the bottom. Would've driven PJ nuts as I took
the better part of five minutes to retrieve a single cast, but that in
of itself would've made the day interesting. ) If I ever went
back, I'd take a two-hander, blast casts 90' to 100' down the length
of the canals using a shooting head, then slowly retrieve a team of
flies along its length. Don't think I wouldn't pick up a few?

The interesting thinks about models, is that far more people follow
existing ones rather than use their brains and a bit of moral courage
to try and forge new ones. Fly fishing for largemouth exactly like a
gear chucker is a losing propostion in my books. IIRC, we had a
similar discussion before I left for NC.

Peter

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On Sun, 23 May 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

Would've driven PJ nuts as I took the better part of five minutes to
retrieve a single cast, but that in of itself would've made the day
interesting.

Yeah, I've done the fly fishing thing quite a bit side by side with
hardware and bait *******. It's not very productive because there are
differing boat handling requirements that are suited to the different
methods.

Mu

This is also not a fair assessment. Flyfishing requires stealth and if
you are fishing with someone who is pitching hardware the fish will
become far more suspicious and go back in cover. This is the reason
crankbaits work so effective the splash may cause them to retreat but
the bead sound causes them to attack. The same goes with a good worm
fishermen the fish feel more comfortable in deep cover attacking even if
they are suspicious. The flyrodder relies on stealth to bring the bass
to his popper which causes comotion that is suppose to resemble a
natural behavior. Hardware fishing will try to envoke an anger strike
(most of the time) and have the bass throw caution to the wind. A
flyrodder tries to resemble a natural prey and have him attack prey. You
can't really fish next to a hardware fishermen in the same boat and
expect to consistently win. Flyfishing and baitcasting are two entirely
different styles of angling. You cannot be an effective flyrod basser
using baitcasting techniques just as you cannot be an effective baitcast
angler using flyrod techniques. They are not the same. Tha is my point
and the reson why I feel so many bass flyrodders are not as successful.
They are trying to use the same technique as the baitcaster with a
flyrod. It's the same as comparing an artificial angler to a live bait
fishermen.

Steve
Sebring, FL

On Mon, 24 May 2004 16:51:47 GMT, Steve
wrote:

[snipper-rooney]



Steve
Sebring, FL

I think I said that somewhere around here, once or twice before. Use
your flyrod like a baitcaster and the baitcasting guy will whup your
ass every time. Use it the way Nature intended and it'll be a
different story.

My point about models is that we fly guys persist in using the
baitcaster model when we go after LM and lake living SM. Time for a
better one.

Peter

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Peter Charles,

I most whole heartily agree

Steve

Peter Charles wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2004 16:51:47 GMT, Steve
wrote:

[snipper-rooney]



Steve
Sebring, FL


I think I said that somewhere around here, once or twice before. Use
your flyrod like a baitcaster and the baitcasting guy will whup your
ass every time. Use it the way Nature intended and it'll be a
different story.

My point about models is that we fly guys persist in using the
baitcaster model when we go after LM and lake living SM. Time for a
better one.


What you and Steve are saying gives me something to think about
(especially now because I'll be hitting one of my local lakes for bass,
carp etc. until runoff is over).

What you say makes sense and I'm going to try and apply that philosophy
- trying to target those fish and situations where fly fishing is an
advantage rather than a disadvantage.


However, the problem I see is that there are many situations where fly
gear just isn't nearly as effective in getting to the fish ie. deep
fish, fish in heavy cover etc.

An experience I had a couple of Springs ago is a good example. There's a
shallow flat in my favorite local lake that floods in the Spring. In the
area, there's a stand of trees that end up in about three feet of water.
I was able to catch some bass fishing the edges of the trees and
was pretty please with the action. Then one day as I kicked my float
tube into the area, there was a guy fishing the flooded timber with
spinner baits that he threw back into the timber. He was slaying the
fish. He probably caught more bass in the half hour I watched him than I
had caught in a half a dozen trips. Unless I'm missing something,
there's no way for a fly fisherman to even get a fly into the area
where the fish were.

Willi

Willi,
My whole point and logic is this, A bait fisher will usally kill an
artificial angler on any given day. The flyfisher imitates the natural
better than most hardware. I learned to flyfish trout, since I moved to
florida I began to flyfish bass. I have fished many times with friends
who are spin and baitcasters, and pulled them in equal to or better than
a hardware angler. I have had my share of bad days. If I always was
better than everyone else I would be on the tournament trail fishing
ultra light weighted flies and streamers. The lesson that I learned was
that you I had to go back to my roots and use the techniques of dry fly
and wet fly that I used in Montana, but the flies and poppers of LM Bass
anglers in Florida and not try to imitate the gearhead. This has been
real hard for me because most of sources for bass fishermen is written
from a gearhead perspective. I am also compelled to bass fish as I read
in magazines and see on television which are predominately hardware
fishermen throwing a fly rod. I never thought of floating a popper like
a dry fly using the waves the same way current carries a dry fly. John
Lindsey (see his post on ROFF) and I have had several conversations and
he recognized and made me realize what I was doing wrong and tonight I
just nailed one of my biggest pond bass (appox 3 acre) close to 5
pounds. Between him and other posters like big dale and Peter charles I
returned to my flyfishing roots and it worked. To be a flyrod basser
we really need to leave baitcasting techniques behind us and use good
flyfish tactics with the long rod. A wormfishermen and a crankbait
fishermen use two entirely different presentations, retrieves, and
equipment, why are we trying to use our equipment to mimic their
technique when they can't even do it. I can't answer why the fish were
hitting buzzbait and leaving your fly. Where you fishing a popper or a
mouse? slow or fast? anything could have been the reason were you
fishing close to him or after he left. Maybe you were just having a bad
day, it happens. Just like the old saying: If you caught a fish with
every cast they would call it catching.

Steve
Sebring, FL

On Mon, 24 May 2004, Willi wrote:

spinner baits that he threw back into the timber. He was slaying the
fish. He probably caught more bass in the half hour I watched him than I
had caught in a half a dozen trips. Unless I'm missing something,
there's no way for a fly fisherman to even get a fly into the area
where the fish were.

It's not merely a matter of getting into the timber. When the spinner
bait bite is hot, it is HOT. The thumping of the blade plus the sounds
made when the lure bumps into the wood is a strike trigger that you'd have
a hard time duplicating with any gear.

Mu

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:in6sc.4324$zE6.5@lakeread06...


Steve Nyhan wrote:

... I believe a fly rodder can out fish a
bait caster in shallow water anytime.

deja vu!! (eh, petah?)

6-8 weight rod, bass leaders, big popping bugs in various colors... hula
poppers, dixie devils, worm/leech ties, etc. fish edges and holes in
lilly pads, fish the drop offs. and...a good baitcaster or spin
fisherman will kick your butt everytime, shallow or deep water...
that's my opinion.

jeff


Hi,

Jeff -
Recently in SouthWestern Nova Scotia, where there is excellent smallie
fishing, several tournamnets have been won by fly rodders!!!

Bill
http://www.tightlines.ca