bass on the fly

On Sun, 23 May 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

Would've driven PJ nuts as I took the better part of five minutes to
retrieve a single cast, but that in of itself would've made the day
interesting.

Yeah, I've done the fly fishing thing quite a bit side by side with
hardware and bait *******. It's not very productive because there are
differing boat handling requirements that are suited to the different
methods.

Mu

This is also not a fair assessment. Flyfishing requires stealth and if
you are fishing with someone who is pitching hardware the fish will
become far more suspicious and go back in cover. This is the reason
crankbaits work so effective the splash may cause them to retreat but
the bead sound causes them to attack. The same goes with a good worm
fishermen the fish feel more comfortable in deep cover attacking even if
they are suspicious. The flyrodder relies on stealth to bring the bass
to his popper which causes comotion that is suppose to resemble a
natural behavior. Hardware fishing will try to envoke an anger strike
(most of the time) and have the bass throw caution to the wind. A
flyrodder tries to resemble a natural prey and have him attack prey. You
can't really fish next to a hardware fishermen in the same boat and
expect to consistently win. Flyfishing and baitcasting are two entirely
different styles of angling. You cannot be an effective flyrod basser
using baitcasting techniques just as you cannot be an effective baitcast
angler using flyrod techniques. They are not the same. Tha is my point
and the reson why I feel so many bass flyrodders are not as successful.
They are trying to use the same technique as the baitcaster with a
flyrod. It's the same as comparing an artificial angler to a live bait
fishermen.

Steve
Sebring, FL

On Mon, 24 May 2004 16:51:47 GMT, Steve
wrote:

[snipper-rooney]



Steve
Sebring, FL

I think I said that somewhere around here, once or twice before. Use
your flyrod like a baitcaster and the baitcasting guy will whup your
ass every time. Use it the way Nature intended and it'll be a
different story.

My point about models is that we fly guys persist in using the
baitcaster model when we go after LM and lake living SM. Time for a
better one.

Peter

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Peter Charles,

I most whole heartily agree

Steve

Peter Charles wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2004 16:51:47 GMT, Steve
wrote:

[snipper-rooney]



Steve
Sebring, FL


I think I said that somewhere around here, once or twice before. Use
your flyrod like a baitcaster and the baitcasting guy will whup your
ass every time. Use it the way Nature intended and it'll be a
different story.

My point about models is that we fly guys persist in using the
baitcaster model when we go after LM and lake living SM. Time for a
better one.


What you and Steve are saying gives me something to think about
(especially now because I'll be hitting one of my local lakes for bass,
carp etc. until runoff is over).

What you say makes sense and I'm going to try and apply that philosophy
- trying to target those fish and situations where fly fishing is an
advantage rather than a disadvantage.


However, the problem I see is that there are many situations where fly
gear just isn't nearly as effective in getting to the fish ie. deep
fish, fish in heavy cover etc.

An experience I had a couple of Springs ago is a good example. There's a
shallow flat in my favorite local lake that floods in the Spring. In the
area, there's a stand of trees that end up in about three feet of water.
I was able to catch some bass fishing the edges of the trees and
was pretty please with the action. Then one day as I kicked my float
tube into the area, there was a guy fishing the flooded timber with
spinner baits that he threw back into the timber. He was slaying the
fish. He probably caught more bass in the half hour I watched him than I
had caught in a half a dozen trips. Unless I'm missing something,
there's no way for a fly fisherman to even get a fly into the area
where the fish were.

Willi

Willi,
My whole point and logic is this, A bait fisher will usally kill an
artificial angler on any given day. The flyfisher imitates the natural
better than most hardware. I learned to flyfish trout, since I moved to
florida I began to flyfish bass. I have fished many times with friends
who are spin and baitcasters, and pulled them in equal to or better than
a hardware angler. I have had my share of bad days. If I always was
better than everyone else I would be on the tournament trail fishing
ultra light weighted flies and streamers. The lesson that I learned was
that you I had to go back to my roots and use the techniques of dry fly
and wet fly that I used in Montana, but the flies and poppers of LM Bass
anglers in Florida and not try to imitate the gearhead. This has been
real hard for me because most of sources for bass fishermen is written
from a gearhead perspective. I am also compelled to bass fish as I read
in magazines and see on television which are predominately hardware
fishermen throwing a fly rod. I never thought of floating a popper like
a dry fly using the waves the same way current carries a dry fly. John
Lindsey (see his post on ROFF) and I have had several conversations and
he recognized and made me realize what I was doing wrong and tonight I
just nailed one of my biggest pond bass (appox 3 acre) close to 5
pounds. Between him and other posters like big dale and Peter charles I
returned to my flyfishing roots and it worked. To be a flyrod basser
we really need to leave baitcasting techniques behind us and use good
flyfish tactics with the long rod. A wormfishermen and a crankbait
fishermen use two entirely different presentations, retrieves, and
equipment, why are we trying to use our equipment to mimic their
technique when they can't even do it. I can't answer why the fish were
hitting buzzbait and leaving your fly. Where you fishing a popper or a
mouse? slow or fast? anything could have been the reason were you
fishing close to him or after he left. Maybe you were just having a bad
day, it happens. Just like the old saying: If you caught a fish with
every cast they would call it catching.

Steve
Sebring, FL

"Steve" wrote in message
link.net...
Willi,
My whole point and logic is this, A bait fisher will usally kill an
artificial angler on any given day.

um, no offense, steve, but i will take either jeffie or pamlico jim
roberts (depending on who had more or less to drink the night before; if jim
had more to drink, i will take him) and let you haul in lefty kreh, or steve
barnard, and put them in any ****ing pond or impoundment in all of north
carolina, fishing for bass, and i will pay you a c-note for each of the
flyboys fish, if you will pay me for each of the others fishes. deal?

wayno

Wayne Harrison wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
link.net...

Willi,
My whole point and logic is this, A bait fisher will usally kill an
artificial angler on any given day.


um, no offense, steve, but i will take either jeffie or pamlico jim
roberts (depending on who had more or less to drink the night before; if jim
had more to drink, i will take him) and let you haul in lefty kreh, or steve
barnard, and put them in any ****ing pond or impoundment in all of north
carolina, fishing for bass, and i will pay you a c-note for each of the
flyboys fish, if you will pay me for each of the others fishes. deal?

I haven't flyfished for bass since I was a teenager, which was a LONG
time ago. Sucker bet.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
. ..

"Steve" wrote in message
link.net...
Willi,
My whole point and logic is this, A bait fisher will usally kill an
artificial angler on any given day.

um, no offense, steve, but i will take either jeffie or pamlico jim
roberts (depending on who had more or less to drink the night before; if
jim
had more to drink, i will take him) and let you haul in lefty kreh, or
steve
barnard, and put them in any ****ing pond or impoundment in all of north
carolina, fishing for bass, and i will pay you a c-note for each of the
flyboys fish, if you will pay me for each of the others fishes. deal?

wayno

Um......not that there's any reason to suppose it would affect the outcome
much, but I was just wondering.......would the estimable Mr. Roberts be
using traditional fishing tackle of some sort or going au
naturelle.......you know, the "nature, red in tooth and claw" thingy?

Wolfgang
who, evidently, never did quite understand the "romantics".

On Tue, 25 May 2004, Steve wrote:

This has been real hard for me because most of sources for bass
fishermen is written from a gearhead perspective.

I think a major source of the problem with regard to the latest literature
and theories on bass fishiing is how much the tournament circuit has
affected the techniques and approaches. These guys are interested in
covering lots of water, targeting the most aggressive fish and getting the
most fish to bite.

As a fly fisherman that is not my idea of fun. I like small ponds where
there is an intimate feeling. I like fishing from canoes in the shallows.
I like float tubing after midnight. I like wading among the reeds.

I've had occasions when the largemouth were keyed in on a mayfly emergence
and would only take a wooly bugger that was allowed to sink to the bottom
and was rapidly heading towards the surface.

Even when throwing hardware one of my favorite techniques is the use of an
unweighted wacky worm. It's a slow technique that requires taking 30 to
120 seconds to cover about a yard of water.

If you are forced into a boat with a hardware guy, consider learning to
fish with an integrated sinking head (like a Cortland QD or Teeny T line).
A laundry basket or wastepaper can at your feet will serve as an effective
line handling accessory. This will usually allow you to engage in a
little more aggressive retrieve.

Mu