To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple

Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Well, if you're into business ethics, Orvis got into bed with Wally World
whilst you were getting your ass shot off. How's that for gratitude.
By the way, welcome back to the real world. If you end up TDY to DC, give
me a hollar. Gots some water that needs fishin'. And, by the way, thank
you.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

Tim Apple wrote:

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. ...

I think the "beef" with Orvis is more reverse snobbery than anything
of substance. Orvis presents themselves as upscale and markets their
products the same way. Tweed and cardigans, bird dog asleep in front
of the fireplace while the master of the house ties flies with a pipe
in his mouth and a brandy at the elbow. This image is, of course,
anathema to most of roff. All the fly fishermen here drive rusted out
old Dodge Darts, wear clothes from the Goodwill bin, and fish with old
fly rods purchased for six ninety-five at Sears back in the fifties.

Like you, I have a used Orvis rod, a 7'6" Superfine, that I am very
happy with.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 14:11:42 -0500, Tim Apple
wrote:

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple

Orvis gear, generally, is good gear. Here's a way you may wish to look
at it: Take two rod blanks, both made at the same plant. Then send one
to "Bob's House O' Rods" and the other to Orvis. Bob, who is an honest
businessman, finishes his rods with decent, but not fancy, fittings and
simply sells them out of his small shop. He offers no warranty other
than that covering his own work. He is upfront about it all, saying,
basically, that it is what is: a reasonably-priced fishing tool. Now
Orvis takes the same blank and finishes it with the finest of fittings,
offers what is essentially a "no questions asked" return policy, markets
it through its catalogs, websites, dealers, etc. Of course, and quite
properly, the Orvis rod will be considerably more expensive.

Is the Orvis version a "better" rod? If the buyer thinks it is for
them, then it is in a purely subjective manner. One could argue that it
is a "better" rod because of the higher quality of the fittings or the
better warranty, and in that narrow objective context, they'd have a
legitimate point. But things like "better," "nice," "fantastic,"
"crappy," and such are always, in practice, subjective.

This might sound smart-assed, but it isn't meant to: only you can say if
a piece of gear is "good" for you. Can you afford it? If so, then the
only real hurdle is overcome. Do you like the feel, the action, the
cast? If so, that is answered . Do you like the look of it? If so,
then that is, IMO, just frosting on the cake when it comes to tools, but
you may think it an important point.

HTH,
R

I've never even used one of their rods... but I was in Tahoe City last
weekend looking for some flies. I see an "Orvis" shingle, and I think, cool
a flyshop. I go in... hmm... what's this? Knick-knacks all over the place,
not a rod or piece of fly gear in sight. Oh, there... "flyfishing upstairs"
the sign says. Cool, head on up... hmm... lots of clothing. Clothing all
over the place... and not flyfishing stuff either. Oh, there in the
corner... it's a small whiteboard with handwritten fishing reports, three
Orvis rods (none my side of $350), and a box of flies... maybe 40-50
different varities.

That is my experience with Orvis, and it matches the impression I had of
them before going in. I'm sure it's good quality stuff...

"Tim Apple" wrote in message
...
You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk
against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for
rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple

The need to bash Orvis seems to be endemic among sophomore flyfishermen.
They make some good stuff and some not so good stuff, and they market a
bunch of stuff you don't need. Trying to turn a profit doesn't make them
evil.

"Tim Apple" wrote in message
...
You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk
against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for
rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?


I have no complaints about my Orvis waders. They fit better and cost less
than the Sims ones I tried on, and have a couple of features that I really
like.

I think willingness to use Orvis products is a sign of non-elitism, since
they DO get a lot of smack talk. I think becoming 'Orvisboy', with a total
dedication to Orvis products is a sign of misdirected product allegience.

--rivemman

I have been trying to figure out what the deal is with Orvis also. I don't own
any of their rods, but have several friends that do and I have fished with
several. If you like a rod that is not superfast, in a 3 or 2 weight rod, I
doubt you will find many any more fun to fish that the Superfine series. The
company has a reputation for being a good corperate citizen for well over a
century now. The local "factory store" in Dallas came to town about a decade
ago and has always supported the local fly fishing club very well and they try
to keep some of all of the fly tying materials in their catalog in stock. Sure
they sell a lot of dog beds, but I don't know of another shop in Dallas that
even tries to keep a few bamboo rods in stock. I hear a lot of bitching about
their high cost, but most of the fly shops carry a bunch of stuff at MSRP in
fact most companies would not sell their stuff to them if they did not. The new
manager of the store in Dallas has the coolist fly shop dog that I have met in
several years.Use them as you see fit as far as I am concerned.

Big Dale

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 14:11:42 -0500, Tim Apple
wrote:

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk
against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for
rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in
all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple

Orvis gear, generally, is good gear. Here's a way you may wish to look
at it: Take two rod blanks, both made at the same plant. Then send one
to "Bob's House O' Rods" and the other to Orvis. Bob, who is an honest
businessman, finishes his rods with decent, but not fancy, fittings and
simply sells them out of his small shop. He offers no warranty other
than that covering his own work. He is upfront about it all, saying,
basically, that it is what is: a reasonably-priced fishing tool. Now
Orvis takes the same blank and finishes it with the finest of fittings,
offers what is essentially a "no questions asked" return policy, markets
it through its catalogs, websites, dealers, etc. Of course, and quite
properly, the Orvis rod will be considerably more expensive.

Is the Orvis version a "better" rod? If the buyer thinks it is for
them, then it is in a purely subjective manner. One could argue that it
is a "better" rod because of the higher quality of the fittings or the
better warranty, and in that narrow objective context, they'd have a
legitimate point. But things like "better," "nice," "fantastic,"
"crappy," and such are always, in practice, subjective.

This might sound smart-assed, but it isn't meant to: only you can say if
a piece of gear is "good" for you. Can you afford it? If so, then the
only real hurdle is overcome. Do you like the feel, the action, the
cast? If so, that is answered . Do you like the look of it? If so,
then that is, IMO, just frosting on the cake when it comes to tools, but
you may think it an important point.

HTH,
R

Unless something has changed dramatically in the last year or so, Orvis
designs its own blanks and manufactures them in Manchester. The only
exception to this would be the new Wally World rods. Whether you like the
action or not is entirely subjective. I have several Orvis rods, and like
most of them. Unfortunately, as I have fished with two of them, I have
discovered that I really don't like those two particular rods, even though
they cast great at the shop. The only real way to fully evaluate a rod is to
take it to the river for a few trips.

Jim Ray

"Particle Salad" wrote in message
. ..
I've never even used one of their rods... but I was in Tahoe City last
weekend looking for some flies. I see an "Orvis" shingle, and I think,
cool
a flyshop. I go in... hmm... what's this? Knick-knacks all over the
place,
not a rod or piece of fly gear in sight. Oh, there... "flyfishing
upstairs"
the sign says. Cool, head on up... hmm... lots of clothing. Clothing all
over the place... and not flyfishing stuff either. Oh, there in the
corner... it's a small whiteboard with handwritten fishing reports, three
Orvis rods (none my side of $350), and a box of flies... maybe 40-50
different varities.

That is my experience with Orvis, and it matches the impression I had of
them before going in. I'm sure it's good quality stuff...

"Tim Apple" wrote in message
...
You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk
against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis
rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for
rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in
all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the
stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple




Orvis has company stores, full line dealers, and shops that just carry
selected items. The level of control Orvis corporate has over each type shop
varies dramatically, but they all get to hang out the Orvis shingle. Thus,
an Orvis shingle on what seems to have been a clothing store. BTW, apparel
is the largest part of Orvis business - not flyfishing! Orvis' presence in
Wally World reminds me a lot of the ill fated attempt Black and Decker made
to become a mass market tool supplier. Who can forget walking into K-Mart
and seeing stacks of plastic circular saws on sale for $19.95? They were not
worth the scrap value of the copper, IMHO. It took B&D years to recover, and
finally had to re-introduce DeWalt to penetrate the market it once
dominated. Hope Orvis doesn't discover the same thing.

Jim Ray